Wow, that's sad. I bake for all my kids' school events, unless specifically requested NOT to. For big shul events too.
It's a bracha it is not on the radar...
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(Ah, to live in Israel where they trust your kitchen!)
Ah, to live in a place where they don't ask even more work or start checking who keeps CY/glatt/halak bet yosef/what hechsher!
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I sew (when I remember to move the sewing machine out of the room the baby's sleeping in). I also crochet (kippot). I volunteer at the shul and ganim. We don't use the dry cleaner. I hang my own laundry (including the cloth diapers).
It is not the style of most women I know.
But few here have a dry cleaner and of course we hang laundry.
People with allergies do bake here too, though many would rather go without. I'm considering baking challa so I can have some too (Jewish bakeries use migraine giving yeast especially in more fluffy stuff). But for now I can't be bothered.
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late afternoon playdates means after you get home from work/daycare...so clearly you're not working or commuting at the time.
By the time many parents get home it is late for a playdate by our criteria. 7, 8 or more.
Wow, that's sad. I bake for all my kids' school events, unless specifically requested NOT to. For big shul events too.
It's a bracha it is not on the radar...
Quote:
(Ah, to live in Israel where they trust your kitchen!)
Ah, to live in a place where they don't ask even more work or start checking who keeps CY/glatt/halak bet yosef/what hechsher!
Quote:
I sew (when I remember to move the sewing machine out of the room the baby's sleeping in). I also crochet (kippot). I volunteer at the shul and ganim. We don't use the dry cleaner. I hang my own laundry (including the cloth diapers).
It is not the style of most women I know.
But few here have a dry cleaner and of course we hang laundry.
People with allergies do bake here too, though many would rather go without. I'm considering baking challa so I can have some too (Jewish bakeries use migraine giving yeast especially in more fluffy stuff). But for now I can't be bothered.
Quote:
late afternoon playdates means after you get home from work/daycare...so clearly you're not working or commuting at the time.
By the time many parents get home it is late for a playdate by our criteria. 7, 8 or more.
In which case the kids have supper and go to bed, ergo no playdates to be taken to.
And, like I said, I LIKE to bake. It makes me sad when I'm asked not to send things in for special occasions. It's one of very few things I feel like I CAN contribute. Since I certainly can't be the class mother and spend time in the classroom or help in other ways.
I think it's partly cultural too. I grew up with a mom who did all that. SAHM at the beginning, part-time WOHM after, and now full-time WOHM for the last 15 years or so. I hated that the birthday treats I brought to school were the same as everyone else's, because my mom's stuff was so much nicer than what was available in the stores. And there was the allergy issue for me; we were limited by what I could bring. (When others brought something I couldn't eat I just didn't take, but my parents wouldn't hear of sending something that was supposed to be for me but that I couldn't have some!)
1) Ceiling fans are great for some people, my mother has three, saves on electricity (no need for a/c most of the time there)
2) Never keep any kind of baloon in a room with standing fans unless they are tied and even then be careful if the fans are going. Helium baloons? do you have a death wish?
3) and most important - I was NOT describing the life of a single mom but certainly that of all working mothers I know married to FRUM men.
Why?
Because those men have lots of responsibilities that we as women DO NOT.
1) they get up very early, for me always earlier than me at my worst days, to daven with a minyan. That means that they for example are up at 5, at shul at 5:30 or 5:45, back home at 6:45 and they do what was not on my list
a) wake the kids
b) go to the makolet on the way back from shul to bring fresh bread and milk daily
c) make the sandwitches for the whole brood to take for the day
d) make their own breakfast or sandwitches to take for the day
Then, at 7 aM they are already gone, out of the house to work.
In the years where my husband worked farther away, he went straight from minyan to work and I had to do the above. B"h for a number of years he worked closer.
Many men during the earlier years here, at least the dl ones, who went to hesder and the like, only start university later, hence you are already having kids when they are still quite in school. If they have to go on for an advanced degree, they have to do this after work, and usually five or even seven years (if they studied in yeshiva for another year after finishing hesder) after the wife has finished her schooling, hence even if they both are working full time he is home later as he is also in school.
Men are required to learn, daven with a minyan, etc.
So while we working mothers were busy running around with kids etc. to doctors, cooking, cleaning the house etc. they went to mincha and maariv, and either studied or in my husband's case, gave a shiur in shul (for free of course).
Some men, particularly in chinuch, klei kodesh, administrators, etc. are always "on the job" and therefore had much less time even when they were physically at home, to do household things and kid things (unfortunately) but it is an expected part of the job. It's just the way it is. If both a man and a woman have those kind of jobs it's a real problem. We have that around here, both of us being "on call". As someone said, there are just things that aren't urgent that dont get done.
Same goes for professional men. who are "on call" at home. My son in law, the resident. When he gets home his phone is on 24/7 shabbos yuntif yom kippur. And he gets calls about his department. All the time. And has to answer. We were out with them last week and he spent 2 hours of the 4 we were together on his smartphone seeing photos of an operation that was ongoing real time to give advice. He should maybe be running after his toddler as he watches the operation? Who are we kidding? Lawyers are same, also other professionals. Not all men have a job selling or somethingblue collar or a desk job that when they leave it, they also leave their work behind.
Things that husbands do that weren't on the list
a) do household repairs
b) fix broken things
c) take out the trash
d) deal with public issues like va'ad habayit, getting moetza ishurim, etc.
e) teaching the boys "boy things" in learning etc.
f) any heavy lifting in the house
No the list isn't equal. The day that I have to go to minyan three times a day rain or shine (not that much snow around here lately) and learn gemoro and other things like that...that's when we will have "equality" and nothing will get done with the kids.
As long as he has to do that, unless I am collapsing I will wash out the toilets and sinks and when he comes home at 10 PM I want HIM to take out his gemoro or whatever and learn another blatt while I (capital) will do the economica roles. If I am after giving birth, collapsing or whatever that's a different story but everyone has their job and Jewish men, if they spend all day on parnosseh, have to spend their late evenings LEARNING (and this from a shtark MO!!! All you chassidish ladies whose husbands work, dont you push them to learn for an hour or two every evening? Every single DL/MO man of my generation in my circle - the one some of you scorn as being "half frei" - went and learned at least an hour every night - I remember my husbands chavrusas when we were younger - and every woman I know who worked full time was HAPPY to have her husband learn as WE get sachar from that too...
More after the meeting
Last time I checked, my DH was frum (at least he hasn't informed me of any change in that deprtment) and he is fairly typical for my world. Where most people see parnassa as a joint effort and the home as a joint effort. Both parties just do their best according to their inclination and make sure everything is done.
In most families in my circle, it is the men who do most of the sponja, a lot of other cleaning, food shopping, bills and finance. Most man are capable of doing laundry, bathing kids, cooking, minding children, changing linen, being in touch with teachers and caregivers, getting kids prepared to leave the house in the morning, etc. etc.
Families where the men do nothing at home are very rare and occasionally the subject of friendly mocking. I guess it is a generational thing.
Since also, in most families either only the husband or both husband and wife are home on Fridays, preperations for shabbat are almost always a joint effort.
My husband is home Tuesdays, but works Friday. I'm home (but not home) Friday...I need to be out of the house when my help comes to do my floors. (He can't exactly clean them if I'm standing on them.)
It's not a generational thing, it's a [dis]ability thing.
Obviously, you are a special case. But by being the exception to the rule, you prove the rule.
Wow, that's sad. I bake for all my kids' school events, unless specifically requested NOT to. For big shul events too.
It's a bracha it is not on the radar...
Quote:
(Ah, to live in Israel where they trust your kitchen!)
Ah, to live in a place where they don't ask even more work or start checking who keeps CY/glatt/halak bet yosef/what hechsher!
Quote:
I sew (when I remember to move the sewing machine out of the room the baby's sleeping in). I also crochet (kippot). I volunteer at the shul and ganim. We don't use the dry cleaner. I hang my own laundry (including the cloth diapers).
It is not the style of most women I know.
But few here have a dry cleaner and of course we hang laundry.
People with allergies do bake here too, though many would rather go without. I'm considering baking challa so I can have some too (Jewish bakeries use migraine giving yeast especially in more fluffy stuff). But for now I can't be bothered.
Quote:
late afternoon playdates means after you get home from work/daycare...so clearly you're not working or commuting at the time.
By the time many parents get home it is late for a playdate by our criteria. 7, 8 or more.
In which case the kids have supper and go to bed, ergo no playdates to be taken to.
And, like I said, I LIKE to bake. It makes me sad when I'm asked not to send things in for special occasions. It's one of very few things I feel like I CAN contribute. Since I certainly can't be the class mother and spend time in the classroom or help in other ways.
I think it's partly cultural too. I grew up with a mom who did all that. SAHM at the beginning, part-time WOHM after, and now full-time WOHM for the last 15 years or so. I hated that the birthday treats I brought to school were the same as everyone else's, because my mom's stuff was so much nicer than what was available in the stores. And there was the allergy issue for me; we were limited by what I could bring. (When others brought something I couldn't eat I just didn't take, but my parents wouldn't hear of sending something that was supposed to be for me but that I couldn't have some!)
I think personally we contribute enough with the tuition. Though I went to public school and my parents also never felt the need to contribute anything... and I wouldn't either. I agree with the partly cultural.
I remember the few years there was a class parent, few parents wanted to do it... few kids also wanted to be school "delegate" or whatever. I think in frum schools here all this is unheard of, at least in those I know of...
Now I would rather be class parent than have to cook... I asked DH who likes cooking. He said he would also rather be class parent than cook for random people!
We did attend the school gala to support them, and were almost the only parents to do it (expensive!), and apart from the guest rabbanim (who don't pay) among the frummest by far. They raised price again this year, so we didn't go. The rebbe was already happy we brought back the applying file and check very quick and "if only all parents did it". Maybe the level of "expectation" of schools varies a lot according to culture...
There is support, there is theory, and there is lecturing.
Support is if one actually asks for help, theory is when states one's ideas on a subject and backs them with supportive statements, lecturing is when you state your opinion and basically assert that anything else just doesn't work, it is my way or the highway.
There is support, there is theory, and there is lecturing.
Support is if one actually asks for help, theory is when states one's ideas on a subject and backs them with supportive statements, lecturing is when you state your opinion and basically assert that anything else just doesn't work, it is my way or the highway.
Posts like this is why you are a genius .
Eh, being opinionated and strong in your opinion doesn't mean you are lecturing.
There is support, there is theory, and there is lecturing.
Support is if one actually asks for help, theory is when states one's ideas on a subject and backs them with supportive statements, lecturing is when you state your opinion and basically assert that anything else just doesn't work, it is my way or the highway.
Posts like this is why you are a genius .
Eh, being opinionated and strong in your opinion doesn't mean you are lecturing.
And mazal tov to those involved in this :-D
I think you are more informative but some posters can certainly come off as lecturing.
FS, I dont want to join your "defining the SAHM" discussion. I just want to make one correction. No one is, or even wants, a 9 hour childfree day. The preschool day is 6 hours, not 9. Anyway, I cant participate in that dicussion from a stupid cell phone.
Oh yes, lifestyle changes. How much is it in the US to have a cell with an internet package, I consider that a major luxury. Here most really heimishe chaseedishe types have a mehadrin phone. You can only talk, it is an older machine, no sms or internet. Much, much cheaper than regular cell pac kage. Does a poor person have to have access to IM while out and about? My dh decided that for the time being one cell between us because he is out of work.
FS, I dont want to join your "defining the SAHM" discussion. I just want to make one correction. No one is, or even wants, a 9 hour childfree day. The preschool day is 6 hours, not 9. Anyway, I cant participate in that dicussion from a stupid cell phone.
Oh yes, lifestyle changes. How much is it in the US to have a cell with an internet package, I consider that a major luxury. Here most really heimishe chaseedishe types have a mehadrin phone. You can only talk, it is an older machine, no sms or internet. Much, much cheaper than regular cell pac kage. Does a poor person have to have access to IM while out and about? My dh decided that for the time being one cell between us because he is out of work.
Just askin'
I have AT&T. Internet packages for my phone start at $9.99 a month because although I have a Windows phone it is not considered a "smart phone". It does have apps though and a qwerty keypad, a camera that takes 2 mp pictures and video clips etc. It requires an unlimited texting plan which we have anyway. I don't im but I do text.
FS, I dont want to join your "defining the SAHM" discussion. I just want to make one correction. No one is, or even wants, a 9 hour childfree day. The preschool day is 6 hours, not 9. Anyway, I cant participate in that dicussion from a stupid cell phone.
Oh yes, lifestyle changes. How much is it in the US to have a cell with an internet package, I consider that a major luxury. Here most really heimishe chaseedishe types have a mehadrin phone. You can only talk, it is an older machine, no sms or internet. Much, much cheaper than regular cell pac kage. Does a poor person have to have access to IM while out and about? My dh decided that for the time being one cell between us because he is out of work.
Just askin'
I also only have a stupid cell phone. It can send/recieve SMSs but I don't use it cause it's too much trouble to hunt and peck. I think the younger generation isn't used to these types of phones. I am a little embarrassed to say that when I'm handed a "smart phone" I don't really know what to do with it. There are all sorts of cool apps like these codes the phone can read, but I'm behind the times on this one.
FS, I dont want to join your "defining the SAHM" discussion. I just want to make one correction. No one is, or even wants, a 9 hour childfree day. The preschool day is 6 hours, not 9. Anyway, I cant participate in that dicussion from a stupid cell phone.
Oh yes, lifestyle changes. How much is it in the US to have a cell with an internet package, I consider that a major luxury. Here most really heimishe chaseedishe types have a mehadrin phone. You can only talk, it is an older machine, no sms or internet. Much, much cheaper than regular cell pac kage. Does a poor person have to have access to IM while out and about? My dh decided that for the time being one cell between us because he is out of work.
Just askin'
I also only have a stupid cell phone. It can send/recieve SMSs but I don't use it cause it's too much trouble to hunt and peck. I think the younger generation isn't used to these types of phones. I am a little embarrassed to say that when I'm handed a "smart phone" I don't really know what to do with it. There are all sorts of cool apps like these codes the phone can read, but I'm behind the times on this one.
There are phones that are called "quick messaging phones". They have qwerty keypads but not a bunch of complicated apps.
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