Mommy Z you are right, that ISNT zedoko! That's grandparents giving a present to their grandchildren. That's very different than going out to strangers and soliciting funds for a camp. Also the term "special needs" covers a really big gamut of things which was once not called anything but just "rowdy" or really active". there are special needs kids who have physical handicaps, there are special needs kids who have mental handicaps, there are special needs kids who have emotional handicaps and there are those with a combination, lo oleinu, of all the above. And then there are special needs kids who have learning handicaps but not necessrily behavioral ones, having trouble with numbers isn't the same as total attention deficiency. Aspergers isn't the same as a kid with one leg shorter than the other. I think we all get the picture.
And all this therapy. It's wonderful for therapists, they (and myself included when dealing with psychological issues) all make a really great living out of it. But not all kinds of kids needing therapy during the year need camp. Depends on the therapy, depends on the camp.
As Tamiri wrote, we give money here in EY for camps for kids who can't afford them. Why? Because we are talking about kids from a war zone who are being shelled and can't really go out of doors much in their areas sometimes. The camps are sleep away, taking them out of an area where they have to run to shelters four or five times a day at times and in various areas, so that they can actually get a night's sleep. I feel good giving that kind of zedoko because for me it's really important to have Jewish families living all over eretz yisroel, including in such areas. I have nothing but awe for the people in Kiriyat Shmoneh who lived there during the shelling all those years, or in Sderot and other such places today who don't plan on leaving. But I agree in full that it is lovely to give their kids a break, it's my bit for yishuv eretz yisroel. I (capital) don't live in Sderot. I live an easy life here in an area that doesn't exactly get mortars every muntig and donnershtig lobbed into my porch. So this is my way to say to these families "thank you for living where you do and by doing so, strenghtening my country". They didn't ask for this camp for their kids, someone came up with the idea and believe me, no one in this country who was asked to give for it, didn't put together what they could and give. We - except maybe the far leftists -are all united in this feeling. This is our people, this is our country.
That somehow just doesn't seem the same as giving money for a SAHM in brooklyn by choice (both by choice a sahm and by choice in Brooklyn) to put her seven year old into day camp..in Brooklyn. I don't see Am yisroel becoming a better place because she decided to live in Brooklyn....
DS has emotional and behavioral issues. Even with therapy he is very challenging.
I'm confused. I thought I was the older generation. I have a married daughter. But I also have a 4 year old. What am I, generationless - a classic?
And goshdarnit, I keep meaning to hand my kids rolls of toilet paper, request with a straight face to rip them into uniform lengths, and video the looks on their faces. Maybe they'll find this normal. Enquiring minds want to know.
Isramom, we're almost in the same boat though I am older than you and my eldest is older than your eldest and my youngest is a couple of years older than your youngest. When asked to cut paper for Shabbat, there is no more look than if I asked someone to clean their room. Same exact anti. No surprises. It's not a weird request: it's a pre Shabbat job. It's funny how we came to this subject thanks to FS but... I thought every famiy who is the slightest bit frugal would do this. I can't understand why they wouldn't.
I'm confused. I thought I was the older generation. I have a married daughter. But I also have a 4 year old. What am I, generationless - a classic?
And goshdarnit, I keep meaning to hand my kids rolls of toilet paper, request with a straight face to rip them into uniform lengths, and video the looks on their faces. Maybe they'll find this normal. Enquiring minds want to know.
Isramom, we're almost in the same boat though I am older than you and my eldest is older than your eldest and my youngest is a couple of years older than your youngest. When asked to cut paper for Shabbat, there is no more look than if I asked someone to clean their room. Same exact anti. No surprises. It's not a weird request: it's a pre Shabbat job. It's funny how we came to this subject thanks to FS but... I thought every famiy who is the slightest bit frugal would do this. I can't understand why they wouldn't.
Kleenex is cheap especially when it's on sale which is often here. There is no need.
I'm confused. I thought I was the older generation. I have a married daughter. But I also have a 4 year old. What am I, generationless - a classic?
And goshdarnit, I keep meaning to hand my kids rolls of toilet paper, request with a straight face to rip them into uniform lengths, and video the looks on their faces. Maybe they'll find this normal. Enquiring minds want to know.
Isramom, we're almost in the same boat though I am older than you and my eldest is older than your eldest and my youngest is a couple of years older than your youngest. When asked to cut paper for Shabbat, there is no more look than if I asked someone to clean their room. Same exact anti. No surprises. It's not a weird request: it's a pre Shabbat job. It's funny how we came to this subject thanks to FS but... I thought every famiy who is the slightest bit frugal would do this. I can't understand why they wouldn't.
Kleenex is cheap especially when it's on sale which is often here. There is no need.
Oh FreidaSima how you would love me! I had 3 kids during my husband's medical training, in the city, with no family, and no money for all these "necesities." And how did I end up? I gained such a deep appreciation for the little I had then and for what we can, bh, afford now. I also learned that I don't need to rely on anyone to raise my kids or run my household - any extra help is a great bonus but I know I can do everything myself, and with a smile. And when my friends call me a superwoman, I just roll my eyes, because any mom who can get by without cleaning help or takeout food or babysitting help while they "stay at home" is not a superwoman, just another mom in any other middle class community. But not in the frum world, apparently here we have higher standards and need and demand more than our nonfrum counterparts. They only live like this if they are literally married to a doctor but int he frum worl, even the kollel families seem to live at a better standard.
OMG. I could have written this except my husband went to school for 11 years and didn't end up an MD or PhD. But we still had 3 kids while he was in school, and NO family help whatsoever from the time #1 (out of 5) was 2. That's a loooooong time with no help. And that is why I am still willing to work hard these days, because I know that you get a lot of satisfaction from being self sufficient. Even if it means your kids are yours to entertain all summer. Wow, you put it all into works יגעת ומצאת תאמין Thanks for this post. I hope your husband earns a mint and you get to enjoy it!
I'm confused. I thought I was the older generation. I have a married daughter. But I also have a 4 year old. What am I, generationless - a classic?
And goshdarnit, I keep meaning to hand my kids rolls of toilet paper, request with a straight face to rip them into uniform lengths, and video the looks on their faces. Maybe they'll find this normal. Enquiring minds want to know.
Isramom, we're almost in the same boat though I am older than you and my eldest is older than your eldest and my youngest is a couple of years older than your youngest. When asked to cut paper for Shabbat, there is no more look than if I asked someone to clean their room. Same exact anti. No surprises. It's not a weird request: it's a pre Shabbat job. It's funny how we came to this subject thanks to FS but... I thought every famiy who is the slightest bit frugal would do this. I can't understand why they wouldn't.
Kleenex is cheap especially when it's on sale which is often here. There is no need.
But it's not good for the plumbing.
We live in an apartment building with a force flush toilet. It is fine. Even my parents and in-laws use tissues in their houses on Shabbos and their toilets rarely get clogged.
I really cannot believe all those posters "making an example" out of the TP. FS brought it as an example of giving your child a job to do which will keep him/her occupied for a while, and give him the satisfaction of having helped.
So, big deal, you don't use cut TP for Shabbos? Or your children are older/ younger/ more active? So adapt the general principal of the idea - maybe in your house you need the walls washed, or challa dough made or kneaded, or weeds pulled or laundry sorted. I feel like I am in kindergarten here - half of this thread has become how weird people think others are for cutting TP. Actually my dd cuts the TP each week, but here we are lazy and it isn't into neat squares, but she still knows she has helped for Shabbos.
I really cannot believe all those posters "making an example" out of the TP. FS brought it as an example of giving your child a job to do which will keep him/her occupied for a while, and give him the satisfaction of having helped.
So, big deal, you don't use cut TP for Shabbos? Or your children are older/ younger/ more active? So adapt the general principal of the idea - maybe in your house you need the walls washed, or challa dough made or kneaded, or weeds pulled or laundry sorted. I feel like I am in kindergarten here - half of this thread has become how weird people think others are for cutting TP. Actually my dd cuts the TP each week, but here we are lazy and it isn't into neat squares, but she still knows she has helped for Shabbos.
Don't you know we'd rather focus on minutiae?
My kids are actually perfectly capable of entertaining themselves with a little help from me. I have two boys home with me right now that I am keeping an eye on while they play.
For .65/ a box of tissues that don't clog the horrible plumbing we have, why would I make a mess out of the toilet paper.
Anyway, if I ever forget to buy a box, I simply take the huge orange shears I have and snip through a roll of toilet paper. It takes 20 seconds, no mess.
My kids clean their rooms every Friday for Shabbos. They know the malachim will be peeking through their windows to check their rooms.
Anything even the slighest bit "destructive" is often fun for little kids. Even cutting toilet paper. Wow you people must think that all we do is go to the bathroom in the Freidasima household for the amount of TP that we use...in any case yeah, as Shal said it was just an example of things to do with your kids around the house.
You want a list? Depending on the age?
Have them help you do hand lanudry. Hang all laundry. Take down, fold and put away.
You have them clean the floor as a game as tiny kids with sponja shmattas wrapped and tied to their knees or elbows. Lots of rolling around on the cold floor there. You make cake and cookies and bread and muffins with them. You put on a tape and sing songs together. You teach them to knit and crochet and sew. You teach them to cut out snowflakes and paper cuts, you give them sponges and get them to wash the bathtub and bathroom walls (kids adore water when it's hot) and you don't make a big deal that they are soaking wet as you dump them into the tub afterwards and clean them up.
You save the things you wanted to shred and have the kids shred them. Yeah you get confetti all around but think of all those statements that you can get shredded that way!
Oh FreidaSima how you would love me! I had 3 kids during my husband's medical training, in the city, with no family, and no money for all these "necesities." And how did I end up? I gained such a deep appreciation for the little I had then and for what we can, bh, afford now. I also learned that I don't need to rely on anyone to raise my kids or run my household - any extra help is a great bonus but I know I can do everything myself, and with a smile. And when my friends call me a superwoman, I just roll my eyes, because any mom who can get by without cleaning help or takeout food or babysitting help while they "stay at home" is not a superwoman, just another mom in any other middle class community. But not in the frum world, apparently here we have higher standards and need and demand more than our nonfrum counterparts. They only live like this if they are literally married to a doctor but int he frum worl, even the kollel families seem to live at a better standard.
I understand you, but the game is not fair when you compare frum mothers with not frum mothers. In the frum world, life is more stressful, bigger families, Shabbos, Yomim Tovim, keeping halachos of kashrus, tznius etc. make life more hectic. A lot of frum people won't let their kids watch videos, go to the beach, etc.
Your dictum of it's not Jewish to limit your family for financial reasons is totally and utterly unJewish according to chazal if you and people who believe like you aren't willing to go out and do any work and every work (pshot neveilo bashuk) mothers and fathers, all day and night, in order to support those children.
so now you're a posek, and you pasken that families are to be limited unless both parents abandon the children, and work 24/7, all day and all night. and all the Rabbonim, and Poskim who say otherwise must be UNJEWISH.
No TR I am saying that according to chazal it is unjewish for people who need money to sit around and not do their utmost in order to earn that money themselves before they turn to the public for zedoko.
In my book a health woman with small children who thinks that camp is a necessity can take on a job, even from home, like watching an additional child during the year, so that she can have money to pay for camp for her kids during the summer. In my book a woman whose husband sits and learns and she sits home and then she thinks it is normal to then go to the tzibur for summer camp for her kids is going against what Chazal stated is what yidden should strive for.
Here I see women, without cholilo sick kids, who made choices but think it is perfectly normal to go to the tzibur for zedoko.
In my book when I learn that chazal teach us straight out PSHOT NEVEILO BASHUK - better you should be stripping a carcass of a dead animal in the market - the most disgusting, low class and smelly occupation of that period - so that you don't need to take zedoko from other people....then such women as those I wrote about above are not acting the Jewish way.
BC is not a sin. That's why there are so many discussions about it. Heterim are given by rabbonim for many reason including the fact that people can't afford to raise their families.
are you seriously saying that it is the Jewish way to have as many children as you can when you know that barring a miracle, it means that you will have to beg for zekodo in order to feed them, clothe them, give them a Jewish education, and give them shelter because you and/or your husband are not willing to go out and work for whatever reason to earn money to support them? Because that's what I wrote about.
And I am not being unique here. Many many many rabbonim have written this.
I thought I was the older generation. I have a married daughter. But I also have a 4 year old. What am I, generationless - a classic?
