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Forum -> Hobbies, Crafts, and Collections -> The Imamother Writing Club

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↑ amother ↓

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 8:55 pm

In an article in the Jewish Press a year ago, orthodox Jews who hurt others were called "FakeOdox".
http://www.jewishpress.com/pag.....4095/

↑ the world's best mom ↓

Fri, Jun 10 2011, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

Please post the link here.

I don't know how to post a link, but my new poem is finally finished.

robynm

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 12:02 am

well for the amother who posted hilchot lashon hara. while u may be right. I dont think thats an appropriate thing to post in response to spmeones poem. if u really had an issue with lashon hara, then number one this entire website is filled with it and u shouldint be on it.

worlds best mom, u know that I admire ur work. as usual, its fantastic. u have made everyone feel the emotion in ur poem.

third, I dont think anyone can say what the chafetz chaim would or would not do in a situation like this.

amother, id like to see a rebuttal poem

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Jun 17 2011, 1:07 pm

Hilchot Loshon Hora are, unfortunately, being abused by those who don't like it when their evil actions are exposed. Doing evil is OK but talking about it is prohibited? No thanks. Something is wrong in the understanding or in the application of Shmirat Halashon.

I could only laugh in mockery when I heard a Rav, who got his smicha from the Chafetz Chaim Yeshiva, talk about how bad the Chabadnicks are. Did he so quickly forget the very first prohibition in Shmirat Halashon?

↑ the world's best mom ↓

Fri, Jun 17 2011, 1:33 pm

Amother, I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Doing evil is wrong and so is talking about it. Something definitely is wrong with most people's understanding of Hilchos Lashon Harah (myself included). That's why I learn a daily Halacha. The Rav who spoke badly about Chabadniks, based on what you say, clearly did the wrong thing.

I just reread your post. I think I understand a little better. People do wrong and then tell everyone not to talk about it because it's Lashon Hara. Again, the doing wrong is the problem here, as is the people talking Lashon Hara about it. It's still correct to stop the Lashon Hara.

And Robyn, thanks. I am glad to be told when I'm talking Lashon Hara. I don't need any more Aveiros than I have already.

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Jun 17 2011, 3:05 pm

DH found for me the place where the Gmara says that the FakeOdox must be exposed and publicized. It is in Yoma, p.86b. Those who pretend to be righteous but act in an evil way MUST be publicized. Rashi even goes as far as saying that it is a Mitzvah to publicize such people. Obviously, following this Mitzvah cannot be considered Lashon Hara.

Does Shmirat Halashon say anything about it?

↑ the world's best mom ↓

Sat, Jun 18 2011, 8:26 pm

Yes, in Sefer Chofetz Chaim, Hilchos L"H 8:7 (lesson 69 in the Daily Companion), it talks about defining the Apikores. It says that it's a Mitzvah to speak derogatorily about an Apikores so that others won't be influenced by them, but you cannot assume that someone is an Apikores based on hearsay. Only if you heard the person himself make heretical statements, or if there are consistent reports throughout the community that he has made such statements.

The Chofetz Chaim says he is worried that people will use this as an excuse to talk about other people who are not Apikorsim. I think the people the people in New Square believe in Hashem and the Torah, but they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe certain false things. I think they're a bunch of hopelessly mixed up people- and I'm refferring only to the ones who start fires and stuff like that- but I wouldn't call them Apikorsim. I wouldn't either say they are pretending to be righteous- I think they really believe that they are doing the right thing by sticking up for their Rebbe.

↑ amother

Sat, Jun 18 2011, 10:34 pm

Apikoros is very different from fakeodox. an apikoros expresses his opinions in the open. Everybody knows that he is an apikoros. a fakeodox appears to all as a big Tzadik, but, acts in a way that harms others - a secret Rasha. I am surprised that the Chafetz Chaim ignored the Mitzvah of exposing and publicizing the fakeodox.

↑ the world's best mom

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 5:35 am

Why assume he ignored it? I probably just didn't see that lesson yet. I've only been learning it for a couple of months.

Anyway, as I said, I think these people really believe that they're doing the right thing with their warped sense of Ahavas their Rebbe.

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