Prioritizing Tuition (Split from School Closing)

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 10:46 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

SawFiftyStates is really draining this site of its energy. Every thread ends the same way, about fiscal responsiblity, bla bla bla. I'm getting very, very tired. We can't have a normal discussion about anything without butting in with the same thing over and over. This is tiresome.

So put me on ignore :-) I don't care.

Yeah, but look at what you've done. You've taken a thread where someone is mourning the loss of a good school for their child and doesn't know what to do next and turned it into a personal rant about financial responsibility. You've alienated a large section of the board who are too pissed at your obnoxious comments to hear anything constructive you might add.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 10:49 am

shlomitsmum wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

I wasn't blaming you. Its a societal issue that will probably only clear once many, many schools close down.

That thought did not even crossed my mind (you blaming me ) LOL
Some people get breaks and the go on holidays ...It drives me nuts and then this happens . so I get your point ,no worries Very Happy

Read the OPs response to me.

Then it snowballed.

I agree that the OP is lamenting the closing of the school and was just adding simple social commentary. I didn't mean for it to snowball but it did.

And lets be real, those who want to be fiscally responsible WILL. Those who won't, won't. They will excuse their behavior anyway.

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 10:50 am

BTW - in response to your "tuition covers costs, but not building projects, etc" comment. By way of example, from a day school that costs $35K/year (you read that right)

Quote:

Will we be asked to contribute to Horace Mann?

Yes. The tuition costs do not cover the entire expense of educating students at HM. The Annual Fund is the school’s yearly campaign to raise funds in support of the daily operations budget. Contributions from trustees, parents, alumni, parents of alumni, grandparents, members of the faculty and staff, and other friends of the school help to close the gap that exists between tuition and the actual cost of a Horace Mann education. Each year we set a goal for the Annual Fund of 100% parent participation. While leadership gifts are important for the school’s economic strength, every gift does matter and every gift does make a difference. Strong financial support of the Annual Fund demonstrates the donor’s understanding and commitment to the school. Annual Fund gifts range in size from $5 to $50,000. We expect that each person will participate at a level appropriate for his or her circumstances.

Parents are also encouraged to donate their time to the School by participating in School and Parents' Association activities.

For more information about philanthropy at Horace Mann School, click here.

That's pretty typical. Kal vechomer.....

↑ Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 10:57 am

FWIW, you live somewhere so far from my reality. My community is not full of new cars, I do not know a single person who has a "gardener" (my father in law is approaching 70, mows his own lawn before going out to learn, my husband trims their bushes and does hedge work if he happens to be around and sees they need them): not everyone has a home to even have yardwork. Who would want to live in a community where all that was standard? Too much to keep up with.

Forget it, it's pointless. You have no concept of reality in terms of:
1)being able to make a living in these times (you're lucky, not everyone is. I can't begin to count all the people I know who are struggling to find work or have settled for pithy pay like chavamom's example)
2)schooling (when you have not even started -- it's not just tuition, there are plenty of other expenses. It's not I paid this much in daycare, I can pay this much in tuition, when you also have other money you have to raise or pay)
3)what others do. I feel sad for your community if those are the standards you know. The farther you get from NY, in general, the less you'll find all that to be true. There are a few cities here and there that are more well to do, but there are plenty of simple Jewish communities all over. Then again, where I live, full tuition is about half of what it is where you live.

Stop blaming the individual. That's my issue. People DO try. It's not very effective though.

And there are plenty of people who continue to donate to their children's schools well after their kids are out to help pay back tuition subsidizing, etc. There are those who value their children's education, and even if they couldn't afford it at the time, they'll continue helping out the school after whenever possible.

And again I take issue with your interpretation of "teaching a skill to your child so they won't steal" applies to "not leeching off society" via government aid. Uch. That is such a perversion of Torah, it's inexcusable.
Stealing? Assur l'gamrei.
Taking tzedaka? Not preferable, but totally muttar.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:11 am

HY,

I do have my feet in reality. I know what it means to not have money. I know what it means to work hard to reach your goals and that you don't always reach them. I understand that people are struggling in this economy and that people take low paying jobs because they can't get anything else.

I may have grown up in NY, but I have friends all over the place from all spectrums of Judaism (not chassidish so much, although I have some chassidish family). If your plan is rely on social services for life or on tzedaka for life, you are going on the wrong path and WILL be a societal leech. I'm not sure how to phrase that differently to be more "sensitive" to people.

Let me explain a conversation I had with a cousin of mine. Her father is in Kollel still 20+ years later and her mother supports the family. They live OOT. She told me she wants to marry someone in Kollel. I asked her how she was going to support her family and she said some low paying job (I don't remember what). I asked her how she was going to send her kids to Yeshiva and she said "Oh scholarships." She is 19 years old and PLANNING her life around others paying her way. You don't see something wrong with that?

My mother was a big supporter of our schools and long after we were gone, she helped them fundraise and donated money and did everything she could. She had tremendous hakaras hatov to the school for taking us in.

I don't say that taking government aid is stealing (unless you are lying to get on it), but I do think its unethical to take if you can work and not need it. Sorry if that's so strange to you.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:17 am

chavamom wrote:

Those who rely on scholarships for their kids = leaches. This from the woman who has yet to put on kid through a yeshiva education. OK, I think we are done now. Raise your hand if there is someone saw50st8 hasn't offended yet.

Those who PLAN their life around it, yes.

That's different than life throwing you a curve.

Either way, goal met Twisted Evil

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:22 am

Tell me, do you feel this way about those who get PELL grants for college? The nearly 70% of kids who get financial aid to go to college? The 20% of kids who go to fancy boarding schools and day schools that require financial assistance? Or it's only Jews who you reserve your scorn for. Leeches, parasites...same thing, right?

Last edited by chavamom on Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ MommyZ ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:22 am

saw50st8 wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Those who PLAN their life around it, yes.

That's different than life throwing you a curve.

Either way, goal met Twisted Evil

Unfortunately we have to rely on scholarships for now but DH is working very hard and when he is further along in his career and I graduate with a BSN (IYH) and can get a job we will no longer need scholarships. We are also planning our family size (with a heter) to live within the financial limitations we expect we'll be under when we are hopefully paying full tuition.

So no I am not offended by anything that was said.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:24 am

chavamom wrote:

Tell me, do you feel this way about those who get PELL grants for college? The nearly 70% of kids who get financial aid to go to college? Or it's only Jews who you reserve your scorn for. Leeches, parasites...same thing, right?

PELL grants are given for people to further their education and become more productive members of society.

Please tell me how Yeshiva does that. Public school does that for free Rolling Eyes

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:27 am

saw50st8 wrote:

chavamom wrote:

PELL grants are given for people to further their education and become more productive members of society.

Please tell me how Yeshiva does that. Public school does that for free Rolling Eyes

If I have to explain to you how yeshiva helps people become productive members of Jewish society, well, we obviously don't have much to talk about. If you want to equate a public school education with a yeshiva one, so be it. But I'll leave it to you to run that social experiment. Oh wait - I already did. I *have* a son in public school. Let's just say the product isn't so pretty.

↑ MommyZ ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:29 am

chavamom wrote:

On a nurse and policeman's salary in NYC? Please get back to me after you've pulled that one off for 12 years x3.

Nope a nurse and a police Sgt. thank you very much Smile

. Not all police officers stay police officers forever. Some become detectives some become Sgt., Lt., Capt etc etc and move up the ranks increasing their salaries. Also in case you didn't know in NYC the base salary before shift differential and overtime for a cop is $75k after 5.5 years (this being the old contract and it will only go up when they sign a new contract if not stay the same) and nurses often earn $60k or more starting salary. Sgt.s earn even more. So yes I am hoping and planning to one day be able to afford full tuition for my three children.

We can't afford it yet but we're hoping to be able to and then continue to contribute to our school after they graduate since it is a Kehillah school and we are members of the Kehillah.

Last edited by MommyZ on Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:30 am

chavamom wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

chavamom wrote:

PELL grants are given for people to further their education and become more productive members of society.

Please tell me how Yeshiva does that. Public school does that for free Rolling Eyes

I understand how Yeshiva helps people become productive members of Jewish society. My point is that for the American public, PELL grants are the equivalent of public school - providing better education to move society forward. Yeshiva education doesn't do that for general society.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:31 am

MommyZ wrote:

chavamom wrote:

On a nurse and policeman's salary in NYC? Please get back to me after you've pulled that one off for 12 years x3.

Nope a nurse and a police Sgt. thank you very much Smile

If you are willing to work night shifts, starting salaries can be in the $80,000 range. At least, that's what my nurse friends have told me.

Good luck meeting your goals MommyZ!

↑ MommyZ ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:34 am

saw50st8 wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

chavamom wrote:

On a nurse and policeman's salary in NYC? Please get back to me after you've pulled that one off for 12 years x3.

Nope a nurse and a police Sgt. thank you very much Smile

If you are willing to work night shifts, starting salaries can be in the $80,000 range. At least, that's what my nurse friends have told me.

Good luck meeting your goals MommyZ!

DH is planning to work the midnight shift so I think I'd rather work opposite schedules instead of the same schedule he works but we'll see what it looks like in a couple of years.

Thank you for wishing me well Smile

. DH is a very productive and successful cop and the bosses anticipate him moving up in the ranks as soon as he is eligible and they are promoting again.

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:35 am

Newsflash - I am an RN. I work those night shifts. My husband has a salary. I think you are in for a shock at how far that salary doesn't go esp. when you have to live in NYC, pay a mortgage, insurance, food AND pay $30K in tuition a year (for your 3 kids). Also, talk to people about RN jobs in NYC these days - while an experienced nurse can make a decent income, new nurses aren't getting hired PERIOD.

Last edited by chavamom on Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 04 2010, 11:36 am

saw50st8 wrote:

And my point was that those same people could have planned better and not planned to be "leaches" that needed financial aid to go to college.