What a Daughter!!!!!

southernbubby ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 5:06 pm

While anyone could admire this daughter, to me the most important thing that children can do is to get married and have children. I would never want to stand in the way of this. I have a 42 year old unmarried brother and it breaks my heart the way that he sees my children and grandchildren as his. His life is his nieces, nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews. The daughter in the story was unquestionably dedicated but who will be there to take care of her in her old age?

Rochel Leah

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 5:53 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I totaly agree with you.

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 6:00 pm

You're right southernbubby about the importance of getting married but isn't there a huge difference between your brother and this woman?

This woman was moser nefesh to care for her mother. If she would have devoted her life to caring for anybody else, in this way, we'd say: wow, what incredible ahavas Yisrael.

In this case, it was her mother. Kibud eim. What were her choices? To go off and make a life for herself and pay strangers to care for her mother? Could she have married and done what she did for her mother? Seems unlikely. Seems that it had to be either-or, from the way she tells her story.

happymom

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 9:01 pm

kibud av vaeim is very imporntat but it is also importnat to take care of yourself. I think its still honoring ones parents to be with them as much as possible and care form them but at the same time have a family and a home. thats exteremely imporntat too.

Last edited by happymom on Thu, Jun 22 2006, 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

carrot

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 11:07 pm

Maybe not, but this still doesn't seem right to me. It also doesn't look like she ever made the decision consciously considering that she magically took on the job of taking care of her mother when she was only 4 years old!

And then can you imagine, when her father suddenly died, instead of mourning herself, she just leapt into taking care of her mother? If you ask me that's sad.

If it would be any other person besides her mother, I would find it equally pathological. Even when someone is taking care of their actual child who is sick, it is considered a good thing to maintain other relationships, even if it means a little less time spent with the sick child.

Why didn't the mother encourage her to have her own life?

Pickle Lady ↓

Wed, Jun 21 2006, 1:11 am

For me it was very strange to read that article. I cared for my bedridden mother while she was dying from cancer. I was with her everyday BUT my mother would not let me quit college to take care of her. So I spoke with my professors and asked them to be lienent on me due to my circumstances. At that time in my life all I could think about was taking care of my mother. I was in class or doing homework, I was at her bedside in the hospital. When she passed away I didn't know what to do, because it became my life to take care of her. I was in shock that she died and now I almost felt like I didn't have anything to live for. This woman didn't mother a child but mothered her mother, there is a big difference. Now that I am a mother of my own children I can see that. It hurt my mother alot to see me taking care of her but also in a way she felt very proud that she had such a loving daughter.

I pray that this woman in the article finds a loving husband and has children of her own.

Raisin ↓

Wed, Jun 21 2006, 6:49 am

I think if I was in the mothers position I'd rather get a little less care and have nachas from grandchildren.

I don't think it happens so much in jewish families, but you do hear of families where one child (usually a daughter) sacrifices her life to take care of her parent(s)

I had a non Jewish hairdresser cut my hair recently. She comes from a family of several children, yet when her mother became old and infirm she was left to look after her mother all by herself, with not a bit of help from her siblings. She couldn't even go away on holiday because there was no one to look after her mother. Now her mother has died, she is all alone because she won't talk to her family, she is so upset with them.

She herself is not looking forward to growing old because who will look after her?

These stories make me so angry and sad.

↑ Pickle Lady

Thu, Jun 22 2006, 12:29 pm

Rifky, some poeple can't handle carrying for sick people especially family members. some of my family was very helpful when my mother was sick and other just wanted to send us money. I often heard from family "it hurts me to see her in that condition", I was thinking to myelf is that all they care about is themselves. It very hard to care for a family member emotionally and phyically. From the article is seemed like the mother was very sick for a long time and wasn't mentally all there. When people are that sick they are bascially like babies. I doubt her mother would have wanted her to give up her life for her. Thats why I" am saying that this woman needs to realize that her mother has passed away and that she needs to make a life for her self and create a furure generation instead of harping on the fact that she cared for her mother like as if she was her own child.

Everytime I look at my children I think about how much my mother would have enjoyed them and how happy my mother is now to see her grandchildren and that she in a way is living on through my kids and IYH their kids....

↑ Motek

Thu, Jun 22 2006, 12:54 pm

Pickle Lady wrote:

she needs to make a life for her self and create a furure generation instead of harping on the fact that she cared for her mother like as if she was her own child.

Do you see the picture of her? Do you think she can still have children of her own? I think the reason she is "harping" Confused

on the fact that she cared for her mother as if she was her child is because she knows she won't have her own children.

Though I think it would be an idea for her to marry and adopt as she sounds like a loving woman.

But there is something that bothers me about all the criticism being written about this woman. So much for the "not judging" mantra that many espouse ... I don't think the woman made a decision when she was 4 or 14 or later on, that she would never have her own children. She was living in the moment, I think, and doing what had to be done. But then, maybe I'm also assuming. Who knows. And then the critical comments about her mother (how dare anybody presume to know what the mother said or didn't say?) Confused

Maybe this article makes some of us feel guilty like there is no way we would be so devoted to our mother or anyone. It's considered axiomatic: Thou must have thine own life. It is forbidden to devote thyself exclusively to others. Maybe this belief needs to be questioned.

supermom

Thu, Jun 22 2006, 2:24 pm

I am sure the mother wanted her to raise her own family but my opinion is that when a person is sick the only person that they could think of is themsleves that they are uncomfortable and they need help to make them at least a half percent more comfortable. Am I making sense I am not sure but I know this from my father. It is not selfish the person is in pain and needs your help and what else can they think of that moment why is the person not getting married and constantly stuck with me?

My uncle stayed by his mothers bedside until the end never got married. People relatives use to tell him you are crazy get married settle down and have kids let someone else take care of your mother. He couldn't imagine nurses and doctors taking good care of his mother when the other residents of the hospital weren't even being treated when needed. So what did he do he dedicated his life to taking care of his mother and no regrets whatsoever. After his mother died he got married about five years later he wasn't young he was in the thirties. He has one child and is happy and never regrets any of the kibud aim he gave to his mother. He wasn't the only sibling in the family he had another six brothers and sisters but he felt that she needed more than anyone can give.

So please don't judge the mother or the child it is hard but how can she have lived other wise? And as for her getting married I don't see why not she looks in the picture like she is what forty she could still have her own kids if she wants I don't see why not. A lot of jewish woman that I know had their youngest at almost forty six years old. You can never underestimate what Hakodosh Baruch Hu can do.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Jun 23 2006, 9:37 am

If you read historical accounts of families from the past, there were often children who remained unmarried to stay at home with aging relatives. They viewed it as not their place to marry, as there was no alternative such as nursing homes. It is just a sad reality, not a judgement. I personally would rather be put in a home than keep my child from marriage but BH I am not in that position. My brother remained "loyal" to our mother even after she passed away and he would not move on with his life.
I hope that this woman can move on and find a loving mate. Maybe she could find a widower or divorced man with children and become a mother that way.

chen ↓

Fri, Jun 23 2006, 10:07 am

It is possible to deeply admire someone as the personification of some middoh or other without necessarily feeling that we could, should, or would want to follow suit.

Where would we be without the many individuals who gave up their personal lives in order to dedicate themselves to community service? We even see an example of this in last week's poroshoh, in which Moshe Rabbenu separated from his wife in order to be available to answer to haShem at all times. It is not for us to say whether or not this was the right thing to do.

Granted, a person taking care of a family member is not serving the "greater good" of the community, but the underlying principle, which is total self-sacrifice for the benefit of someone else, remains the same. Whether or not what this woman did was the right thing to do, we cannot help but admire her dedication.

amother

Fri, Jun 23 2006, 1:07 pm

Some of the comments here really hit home with me. I have a child with a disablity & often wonder who will take care of him. My children all assure me that they will never abandon him, but who knows where their lives will take them &/or their spouses.(Daven for Mashiach).
Same with parents, someone has to take responsibility for them too. It's a very hard position to be in.
This woman seems to be an only child, what would anyone else have done?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 25 2006, 4:29 am

Rifky wrote:

first of all, we should not say that this does not happen in the jewish world. I know ppl who have done this and I am sure that we have all heard of nechama leibovitz, she never married as she cared for her uncle.

also, I would also think that a mother would want to see some nachat from her child and so to me the minute that I saw the article and the picture, I became rather sad. I am sure that her mother was very greatful for how much her daughter helped her and looked after her but to have no continued nachat? thats sad to me.

bonzie

Sun, Jun 25 2006, 5:01 am

its absolutely amazing what this child did for her mother, and I don't think any of us have a right to judge whether what she did was wrong or right, because b''h we weren't in that situation (well maybe pickle lady, for which im really sorry that you had to go through that) at the same time we used to have s/o that would come to our house e/ shabbas and she literally lived FOR her mother, she wasn't married didnt have children etc etc, when her mother passsed she had NOTHING! and there was such a change I used to see her and ask her how she was and she would say "unfortunately alive." if people live for their parents, and their paretns leave this world after 120, then they soon feel as if there is nothing to live for.

↑ Raisin

Sun, Jun 25 2006, 6:14 am

I don't think anyone is criticizing this woman - she is obviously very selfless. I just think, as other posters said, true kibbud av ve'eim is also making a life for yourself. You can still take care of your parents (and other relatives) if you are married. Plenty of people do, although it is hard. But not as hard as being doomed to spend your entire life without spouse or children.

I am just criticizing the attitude of older people who are willing to sacrifice their childrens life in this way (unlike pickles mother, who even though she was very sick, didn't want to see pickle quitting college.) It is unnatural, and I don't think it is a very Jewish way of life.