Lubavitch men and ties

↑ realeez ↓

Sun, Apr 30 2006, 9:51 pm

GR wrote:

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Maybe it was noticeable b/c these men weren't wearing kapotas - most of them didn't even button their suit jackets.

it was shabbos and they werent wearing kapotes???
are you sure they were married?

I don't know them to say whether they are married or not! There were like 20 of them. I only noticed the lack of ties and open jackets with quite a few untucked shirts and bent hats.

↑ gryp ↓

Sun, Apr 30 2006, 9:55 pm

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I think every chosid decides on a personal level to wear or not to wear a tie based simply on preference and lifestyle. I think most who do wear one do so to make a kiddush hashem because that is considered the "proper" attire for men in a formal setting (or work setting etc.)

thats also how I understand it.

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I don't know them to say whether they are married or not! There were like 20 of them. I only noticed the lack of ties and open jackets with quite a few untucked shirts and bent hats

they probably were not married if they were wearing jackets!

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, May 02 2006, 6:08 pm

Milk Munch wrote:

I think every chosid decides on a personal level to wear or not to wear a tie based simply on preference and lifestyle.

This is incorrect. Chasidim (and I repeat, this includes Bobov, Satmar, Belz, Vizhnitz etc.) generally do not wear ties because Chasidim do not wear ties. We have yet to find a source for the reason but it is not about personal preference and lifestyle. It's not coincidental that yeshivishe people wear ties on Shabbos and to simchos (and often during the week, depending on what they do) and chasidim generally don't.

TzenaRena

Tue, May 02 2006, 6:22 pm

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is the idea of a gartel, making a separation. Many other cultures have adapted this idea. The French used the tie, and arabs use that rope around thier heads that holds thier dishtowels on.

This is actually the the difference between a chossid/Yid and other (non jewish)philosophies.

The Jew aims to bring down the intellectual, G-dly quality of his G-dly soul, which the seat of it is "moach sheb'rosh" into the emotions and practical aspects of his personality, therefore, the separation starts as low as possible physically, so that more is brought into the G-dly aspect.

As we see the Arab headress, ties the rope around the head, so that there is no connection from the intellectual to emotional aspect, which remains detached entirely.

brooklyn ↓

Tue, May 02 2006, 7:56 pm

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I don't know them to say whether they are married or not! There were like 20 of them. I only noticed the lack of ties and open jackets with quite a few untucked shirts and bent hats.

I will not say this of all of the Lubavutch bochurim, but many do look like slobs with untucked shirts and wrinkled jackets and beat up hats. Maybe that is the look, but to me it just looks sloppy.

didan

Tue, May 02 2006, 8:22 pm

B"H

brooklyn wrote:

I will not say this of all of the Lubavutch bochurim, but many do look like slobs with untucked shirts and wrinkled jackets and beat up hats. Maybe that is the look, but to me it just looks sloppy.

I don't know which Lubavitch bochurim you know because the ones I know (and I know a lot, being on Shlichus we very often have bochurim coming to help out with various things), are pretty put together.

↑ Milk Munch ↓

Tue, May 02 2006, 9:01 pm

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This is incorrect. Chasidim (and I repeat, this includes Bobov, Satmar, Belz, Vizhnitz etc.) generally do not wear ties because Chasidim do not wear ties

Ok, I was really thinking more about Lubavitchers, because we are much more out in society than other types of Chasidim and its important to make a kiddush hashem. (of course it takes more than a tie, but thats whats considered proper attire in secular culture)

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but it is not about personal preference and lifestyle. It's not coincidental that yeshivishe people wear ties on Shabbos and to simchos (and often during the week, depending on what they do) and chasidim generally don't.

I still contend that it is. I'm getting the feeling you live in Crown Heights.
In CH , perhaps "chasidim generally don't". But if you go to any community that is NOT a large Lubavitch community, you will see quite the contrary. Do you think that a Lubavitcher who is a lawyer won't wear a tie simply because he is Lubavitch???? I think NOT!

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We have yet to find a source for the reason

I don't think you will find any source because this has nothing to do with any "shita" or religious observance of any sort.

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The Jew aims to bring down the intellectual, G-dly quality of his G-dly soul, which the seat of it is "moach sheb'rosh" into the emotions and practical aspects of his personality, therefore, the separation starts as low as possible physically, so that more is brought into the G-dly aspect.

As we see the Arab headress, ties the rope around the head, so that there is no connection from the intellectual to emotional aspect, which remains detached entirely.

Thank you for explaining it so beautifully!

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, May 02 2006, 9:09 pm

You thanked her for her beautiful explanation after saying you don't think it has any religious significance, but that is just what she explained?! Confused

Where I live is not the point. The point is that many Lubavitchers wear ties if they think it's expected of them in their environment, whether workplace or shlichus.

The Rebbe MOCKED the wearing of ties. Why did the Rebbe wear a tie then? Maybe because of his position as Nasi. I don't know.

Halevai that the Lubavitcher who wear ties only because they feel they have to, do so to be "yotzei" and truly don't care about it one or the other.

Again, Chasidim (all types), as a general rule, do not wear ties.

This general rule is more likely to be followed when they live among their own as opposed to "out in the world."

goldrose

Tue, May 02 2006, 9:43 pm

ektsm wrote:

it's a minhag if anything not a halacha and most shluchim wear ties because it is just not acceptable not to

I dont think shluchim do things because they are "acceptable" or not.

But since wearing a tie is not a matter of halacha, and wearing a tie is more presentable/respectable, they wear ties.

↑ Milk Munch

Tue, May 02 2006, 10:07 pm

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You thanked her for her beautiful explanation after saying you don't think it has any religious significance, but that is just what she explained?!

She explained a gartel, and the concept of it.

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Where I live is not the point.

Of course not. I didn't say it was. Theres just a certain mentality thats coming accross.

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The point is that many Lubavitchers wear ties if they think it's expected of them in their environment, whether workplace or shlichus.

That is all I've been saying and nothing else.

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The Rebbe MOCKED the wearing of ties. Why did the Rebbe wear a tie then? Maybe because of his position as Nasi. I don't know.

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Again, Chasidim (all types), as a general rule, do not wear ties.

This general rule is more likely to be followed when they live among their own as opposed to "out in the world."

What other chasidim other than Lubavitch do live "out in the world"?

↑ brooklyn

Wed, May 03 2006, 11:35 am

didan wrote:

B"H

brooklyn wrote:

I will not say this of all of the Lubavutch bochurim, but many do look like slobs with untucked shirts and wrinkled jackets and beat up hats. Maybe that is the look, but to me it just looks sloppy.

I cannot speak for the bochurim on slichus because I don't know. I am taliking about many (not all) of the bochurim you see in CH.

jewgal84

Sun, May 07 2006, 10:39 am

Me, personally, no minhagim or halachos;

My dh husband wears a tie on Shabbos and to some of his close friends weddings.

He does not go shop for them, I do and most of the colors he has was picked to match some of my outfits ie: Chasuna.

He generally likes wearing them bc he knows it makes me happy. But the summer time is when he doesn't wear 'cuz it's too hot.

Guys are all black and white, I find the only way to differentiate them is by a diff color yarmulke and tie!!

(No my dh does NOT (and will not) wear PINK or PURPLE ties!!)

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, May 07 2006, 11:15 am

Milk Munch wrote:

[She explained a gartel, and the concept of it.

You missed her point then. She explained the idea of separation and why chasidim make it where they do (waist-gartel not neck-tie)

I asked someone why Chasidim don't wear a tie and his reaction was a look of incredulity and the response, "feh!" Translation: tie?! that fashion statement that serves no purpose whatsoever other than to fit in with what everybody else is wearing?!

rainbow baby ↓

Wed, Jun 07 2006, 5:44 pm

Being Lubavitch my husband wears a tie for work and on Shabbos as well. He has to wear one for work and I always heard that if you wear a tie during the week you should also wear it on Shabbos.

Yes Lubavitch Bocherium do not wear the shirts tucked out, and do not wear ties but what difference does it make? It does not seem to interfere with their mivtzoim, so what is the big deal. You know in my community some men walk around with their hats half of their heads, but guess what if that is the way they want to wear them then let them.

timeout

Wed, Jun 07 2006, 6:00 pm

My husband who is not Lubavitch but wears a Bekeshe (chassidishe) does not wear a tie neither do any of his brothers who are all Chassidishe.

I went into a store on 13th Avenue in BP to buy a shirt for my DH and noticed the buttons were on the wrong side so I picked up another thinking there was tailoring error but they were all like that. I asked the owner he said chassidim don't wear shirts buttoned the regular way. This I never knew!

happy2beme ↓

Thu, Jun 08 2006, 10:53 am

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tie?! that fashion statement that serves no purpose whatsoever other than to fit in with what everybody else is wearing?!

sorry, never thought of a tie as fashion statement- I just thought of it as part of a men's attire. If you wear a suit- a tie goes with it. can something that is so many years old still be a fashion stmt?? no, unless it's something new: new color, new pattern. no?

I thought a gartel was to prepare yourself for tefilla?

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The Rebbe MOCKED the wearing of ties. Why did the Rebbe wear a tie then? Maybe because of his position as Nasi. I don't know.

that doesn't make any sense to me- he mocked? & he wore it? that's very confusing... what is there to mock anyway?

if my dh didn't wear a tie - I wouldn't know what to buy him for every Y"T! Smile

But I guess since I'm yeshivish, ties are accepted in my crowd...

isn't it sad how there are so many divisions between every sect? oooh- he wears a tie, he wears a gartel, a beck...