Women perfectly made up on Shabbos and Yom Tov

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 6:45 am

amother wrote:

Hey, I just want to point something out:

All these women who look so amazingly perfect on Shabbos morning, must NOT be getting all that intimate with their hubbies on Friday nights.
Because there is NO WAY you can have your makeup looking so perfect after that!!

I thought of that. Sad.
I'm beginning to see the need for general chizuk about makeup on Shabbos and Oneg Shabbos in general. Anyone here have connections with those who decide on topics for those annual women's chizuk videos?

↑ Atali ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 6:47 am

You guys really still seem not to get it.

It isn't about "being perfect" or "going to hell", it is about keeping shabbos.

Not putting on makeup on shabbos isn't some chumra invented by your bais yaakov teachers, or even an issur d'rabbanan. It involves several issurei d'oraisa of the same severity of driving to shul on shabbos.

If you put on makeup on shabbos (while knowing that it is assur to do so), you are pashut not shomer shabbos just like the Reform Jews in your city are not shomer shabbos.

Here is a question for you:

"If you ran out of makeup on shabbos would you go to the store and buy it? If not, why?"

Buying the makeup on shabbos (with cash, not a credit card) only involves one or two issurei d'rabbanan (depending on if you have an eiruv), while putting on the makeup involves up to three issurei d'oraisa.

↑ WriterMom ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 7:38 am

Atali wrote:

Agree with the first part.

With respect to the bolded part, I would actually disagree slightly: Reform Jews don't know any better. And if they asked their rabbis if it was a problem, their own rabbis would tell this it's ok. Not that I agree, but - they don't know better. Being mechalel shabbat because you don't know better and even your own authority figures tell you it's ok is, to my mind, much less of a problem than knowing exactly what is right and wrong with makeup and yet doing what you want anyway.

I admit I'm not a big makeup person, so it doesn't bug me not to be able to wear any, or to be strictly limited, on holidays and shabbat. But seriously - it's makeup. On that thread about brides being paid not to wear makeup, I thought "well that's a bit extreme." But if there are people who tell themselves that it's equivalent to pikuach nefesh to wear makeup on shabbat, well, maybe we need extreme solutions.

↑ Atali ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 7:45 am

WriterMom wrote:

Atali wrote:

That is certainly true.

Quote:

I admit I'm not a big makeup person, so it doesn't bug me not to be able to wear any, or to be strictly limited, on holidays and shabbat. But seriously - it's makeup. On that thread about brides being paid not to wear makeup, I thought "well that's a bit extreme." But if there are people who tell themselves that it's equivalent to pikuach nefesh to wear makeup on shabbat, well, maybe we need extreme solutions.

I had the exact same thought but was afraid to say it. Now that you said it, I will too.

Up until now I have been bothered by groups that placed blanket prohibitions on makeup since there was a takana of Ezra that makeup should davka be made available to women (for their husbands).

However, maybe the reason for the takana in those groups not to allow makeup is actually related to this issue, to stop women from being addicted to makeup to the extent that they are mechallel shabbos to wear it. While kallah teachers should still encourage women to wear makeup at home for their husbands, maybe prohibiting it outside isn't such a bad idea

(However, that would create problems for those of us who have to go to work or those with skin issues, so maybe not)

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 7:47 am

As far as I'm aware, applying at least certain kinds of makeup is assur on Shabbos.

Tell me though, does no one here who refrains do any other melachos? Bite nails? Pick at skin? Move any type of muktzah? Use baby wipes without first squeezing them out? Hint to a child to turn off the light? Wet a stain on clothes? Brush hair wrong?

Hilchos Shabbos are very complex and there isn't widespread awareness of some melachos. That makes it harder to think of them as "so bad". Any ideas how to improve this situation?

↑ greenfire

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 7:52 am

Isramom8 wrote:

you're absolutely right ... people tend to focus on what they don't do and what others do ... some people are more careful with different things is all ...

don't know however, if we can improve the situation as a whole or simply improve on our own self awareness instead of looking onto others ...

↑ Atali ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 7:52 am

Isramom8 wrote:

Some of these examples are comparing apples to oranges:

Makeup involves several issurei doraisa, most of your examples are only d'rabbanan. Moving muktzah, using baby wipes (some poskim even allow it), hinting to a child, and brushing hair are all d'rabbanan. Biting nails and picking at skin may also only be d'rabbanan, I'm not sure.

Also many of these are done without thinking, not in a premeditated manner every shabbos.

I am referring to those who are aware that it is assur to wear makeup and do it anyway.

↑ Atali ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 10:45 am

blondie wrote:

Atali, slight corrections:
brushing hair is menafetz and gozez (unless just a surface smoothing down with a baby brush), and picking skin and biting nails are both gozez.
D'oraisa.

I am aware that gozez is d'oraisa, but brushing hair is not. IIRC, it is only d'oraisa if you are doing it for the sake of getting the item being sheared (such as getting the wool from the sheep). If I am correct about this (which I am not 100% sure of) biting nails and picking skin are d'rabbanan

However, even if I am wrong about that, brushing hair is for sure m'drabanan since you do not desire at all to pull out hair when you brush it. The pulling out hair in accidental but inevitable and therefore it is prohibited under the rabbinic prohibition of psik reisha (an unavoidable consequence)

gryp

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 10:51 am

DefyGravity wrote:

I know I've said this numerous times here, but I'll say it again. I don't notice if women DO NOT wear makeup. However, I DO notice makeup that's caked on. It looks silly. Women look much better with natural skin then they do with too much makeup, especially with too much day-old makeup.

Defy, I'm completely with you on this.
It saddens me that there are women with such a low opinion of their natural appearances that they are mechallel Shabbos in order to feel better about how they think people will perceive them.

This is the face G-d gave you. It suits you just the way He created it.

mommalah

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 11:38 am

Isramom8 wrote:

yes, the schools that we pay exhorbitant amounts of money to should be prioritizing teaching hilchos shabbos.

↑ Raisin

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 12:10 pm

GR wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

many people would look better with no make up at all. When I see beautiful women cake their face and eyes with heavy make up it is so sad.

make up can definatly make a huge difference to you appearance, if applied correctly, but very few women look really bad without makeup. (scarring is a different story...bh I don't have that nisayon)

And it is one less thing to do on shabbos morning. Wink

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Oct 26 2009, 1:46 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

About lipstick, it could be lip dye that was put on before Shabbat and then roll on lip gloss on top.

When I asked a Rav about putting long lasting lipstick on before Shabbos and retouching on Shabbos by tapping lipgloss on top (no shmearing), he said it was still considered tzoivea (coloring) because the gloss brings out the color. Based on that, I would imagine that putting gloss over existing lip dye would fit into the same category.

This thread is making me so depressed. I don't understand how so many of you are justifying being mechalel shabbos by saying "nobody's perfect". It's like turning on the air conditioning on Shabbos because you're too hot and saying you need it to enjoy Shabbos and "nobody's perfect so don't judge me"!

To the original poster, I understand how difficult it must be for you and perhaps the type of oil free powder you use to cover the scars is perfectly fine to use. You should definitely ask you rav, but if he says it's assur, maybe if you took it on yourself to face the challenge (and the world) with a bare face on Shabbos, Hashem will see your efforts and will bless you with beautiful, clear skin. If you take the first step, it won't go unnoticed by the Aibishter.

To those of you that sleep on your back, are you telling me that when you are asleep your body makes no movement at all throughout the night? Sorry, not buying it!! My makeup stays on really well over Shabbos and even sometimes a 2 day yomtov, but that dewy finish and glossy lip look - no way is that possible, unless you're maybe talking about a thick layer of greasy pancake foundation or something like that - gross! I'd love to hear about the miraculous lip GLOSS that stays on overnight and then all day, including eating several meals and a full night of sleep. I know about the long lasting lipsticks, but gloss that lasts through all that - come on!