Women perfectly made up on Shabbos and Yom Tov

chanchy123

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 2:55 pm

amother wrote:

Atali wrote:

amother wrote:

Atali wrote:

BTW,

With the driving on shabbos issue, I am not referring to those who are showing up at a chabad house for the first time, but to those that are otherwise shomer mitzvos, like the women on here who are mechallel shabbos by applying makeup.

the issur with make up is Tzoveya - coloring - correct? In that case is there an issur with applying only foundation just as a cover-up?

That isn't the only issur. There is also an issur of mamrachek, spreading. It is the same issur as spreading diaper rash cream and definitely applies to foundation.

How about if it is powder foundation, which you just pat on?

If I remember correctly there is a machloket between Ashkenazim and Sphardim on powder with pigminatation but being that I am a member of Tamiri's species I can't remember who says what because it never really "applied" to me.
When my sister was in sem their rav had the girls bring out their make up bags and went through them showing them what was ok and what wasn't.

So the moral of the story is learn the halachot of make up on shabbat or call up your LOR for specific instructions. Not everything is assur and not everything is assur to the same degree.
As Atali mentioned the main issurim are tzovea and memareach.

freidasima ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:11 pm

Just read the link to shabbos makeup that was on here, was all that we learned in sem over 40 years ago. Nothing has changed and it's not really difficult.

Now I'm not a real makeup wearer, but with the exception of lipstick everything I use during the week I can use on shabbos.

Loose oil free powder - exists all over the place for those of us with hypoallergenic skin. I use only that
Loose oil free powdered blush - same as above.
You can use the blush as eyeshadow as well.
and if you only put in on the lid you can use loose white powder (even oil free talcum powder, I.e. cornstarch, just not on pesach) under your brow as a highlighter so the two colors are not near each other, you don't have to worry about them mixing and you have something on your eyes and under your brows.

Lipstick. Now here you have a problem. But aren't there any "old" English ladies on this board? I remember as a girl in Sem we would buy from England this thing, no other word for it, that was reminiscent in smell and probably taste of coloreless nail polish. Anyhow we would put on lipstic and then apply this gook over it. It would seal the lipstick and you could eat and drink and whatever you wanted and even wash with water and unless you rubbed it with makeup remover, it would stay on. Forever. Unless you chewed it off and believe me it tasted so bad that you didn't chew it ever.

So basically unless you need mascara and foundation you are fine.
And you want shiny lips? Lick them.

↑ Atali ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:13 pm

freidasima wrote:

Some colors of blush are problematic because of tzoveiya even if they have no oil.

↑ Tamiri ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:16 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Can someone please compile a list of all these looooong lasting brands of everything so that I can search for them in Israel or the internet? For everyday of course - not for Shabbos.

But if you wear them every day except for Shabbat, people will think you are going to the mikva every Friday night shock

Oh Tamiri, you have no idea how many friends were there the last Friday night I went. It was a Shabbos party.

Did you, like I, get to say hi to the passersby you know on the way there as well, like I have to do because the mikva is smack dab in the middle of our residential area? Who needs to not wear makeup: the neighbors can just look out the window any night and see who is going where embarrassed

↑ Bleemee ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:19 pm

freidasima wrote:

I was under the impression that the makeup had to be "certified"?

↑ Ruchel ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:22 pm

Bleemee wrote:

freidasima wrote:

I was under the impression that the makeup had to be "certified"?

No. How did people do before shabbes make up? How do people do in places where no one heard from shabbes make up? You just ask your rav and use common sense!

↑ Tamiri ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:23 pm

To all you young makeup appliers: I want you to know that in my opinion there is nothing as beautiful as a Jewish wife with her beautiful face showing. Your skin is still young and fresh, your eyes still sparkle, time has not added wrinkles and life hasn't etched lines into your skin. What is the need to hide all that behind stuff from a bottle.
Maybe I'll go post under "you know you are a crunchy mom when....".

↑ Bleemee

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:28 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Bleemee wrote:

I was under the impression that the makeup had to be "certified"?

No. How did people do before shabbes make up? How do people do in places where no one heard from shabbes make up? You just ask your rav and use common sense!

I got the impression from this:

Star-k link that Atali provided wrote:

To conform with Rav Moshe's ruling, Shabbos makeup may only be used under the following conditions:

A. Tested - It has been tested by a reliable Rav or certifying agency to confirm that it is "temporary" enough to meet Rav Moshe's standards. The product that one wishes to use on Shabbos must be specifically endorsed by the Rav or certifying agency. General statements should not be relied upon.

eta: Of course "certified" includes your own Rav! I just meant that I do not think one can just take her regular weekday makeup that may fall into the category of "powder, yada, yada" without taking the specific makeup to a Rav for confirmation. That's what they did before they had official "Shabbos makeup".

Last edited by Bleemee on Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:35 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Oh, sure! Two times ago on Friday night I got from a woman on her mirpesset, "Isramom8, you passed the shul, where are you going? Wanna come up and chat?"

ya gotta love it here.

Tamiri, it's even worse. I taught a number of these women taharas hamishpacha, or partly trained them to teach it, and they feel a little weird meeting me at the mikvah!

Not only that, but a good friend started working there as an attendant. She feels weirder than I do.

You know what they say about Israel, one big happy family Very Happy

intel ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:41 pm

greenfire wrote:

Atali wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I actually think it would be great - but only if they're driving to shul for the spiritual aspect and not the I need to get out of the house ...

Please tell me you aren't being serious...

That is precisely the opinion of the Conservative Movement, and we see how well that worked.

I'm quite serious ... but then I'm referring to those who wouldn't otherwise go - and don't see the whole keeping shabbos down pat ... but they want to connect spiritually and therefore drive to shul ... heck for some it's either that or drive to the movies ... besides it's hard to understand if you are not that person - or if you don't know a person like that whose goal is to truly go for the spiritual aspect ...

you really never know where someone is coming from or to where they are going ...

CHV"SH!! You are never allowed to encourage someone to be mechallel shabbos in order to go to shul. (you can't tell someone to do an aveira in order to do something "spiritual") rather they shouldn't go to shul.

chavs

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 4:22 pm

freidasima wrote:

Lipstick. Now here you have a problem. But aren't there any "old" English ladies on this board? I remember as a girl in Sem we would buy from England this thing, no other word for it, that was reminiscent in smell and probably taste of coloreless nail polish. Anyhow we would put on lipstic and then apply this gook over it. It would seal the lipstick and you could eat and drink and whatever you wanted and even wash with water and unless you rubbed it with makeup remover, it would stay on. Forever. Unless you chewed it off and believe me it tasted so bad that you didn't chew it ever.

So basically unless you need mascara and foundation you are fine.
And you want shiny lips? Lick them.

Its called Max Factor Lipfinity or one of the other 18 hour stay on lipstick that you can get nowadays, you put the colour on then the moisterise coat and then dont bite your lips.

I have actually heard of this mythical frum lipstick, I think its called Shayindy, I looked for it in some shops here but I couldnt find it maybe they stopped making them after Max factor made the likes of lipfinity.

Love My Babes ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 4:44 pm

did not read everything ppl here said, but I find it really sad that just because some women cant get makeup to stay on, they think others are lying and being mechallel shabbos. I guess I have good makeup and know how to properly apply it. I spend a bit more time before shabbose than a regular morning, but my lipstick looks really good shabbos morning. I have one lipstick that I use if I want it to look that way. its a bit of a shimmer, light pink. I put foundation on my lips first. then I put on like 3 coats of lipstick and then lipsealer. wait a minute and then reapply some more lipstick on top. I eat everything on friday night, even soup and im not super duper careful how I do it. my lipstick looks good on shabbos morning. and I never in my life have put on makeup on shabbos!!! u can judge if u want and say BS or think im a lier or whatever else u want to think. it works for some and not for everyone. I guess u need to have the proper products if u want it to be done right.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 4:49 pm

intel wrote:

greenfire wrote:

Atali wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I actually think it would be great - but only if they're driving to shul for the spiritual aspect and not the I need to get out of the house ...

Please tell me you aren't being serious...

That is precisely the opinion of the Conservative Movement, and we see how well that worked.

This is my take on it. But many don't agree. For example there are shittas who invite non shomer shabbes people to come have a shabbes service and kiddush, and they target people from other towns too (people who couldn't be coming by foot).

WriterMom ↓

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 4:54 pm

intel wrote:

greenfire wrote:

Atali wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I actually think it would be great - but only if they're driving to shul for the spiritual aspect and not the I need to get out of the house ...

Please tell me you aren't being serious...

That is precisely the opinion of the Conservative Movement, and we see how well that worked.

Of course, you can't encourage someone to do an aveira. But that's not quite what we're talking about here. If a totally secular Jew is considering going to shul, but they're gonna drive there, and they're gonna get a Starbucks on the way ... do you criticize them for being double(triple, quadruple) mechalel shabbat, and maybe cause them to close the door forever, and, as Greenfire wrote, spend Shabbat instead at the mall, or the gym, or getting groceries? I understand that you could argue you should explain to them why it's wrong; but I myself wouldn't, but would hope that this would be the beginning of a bridge that would lead them to a life in which they understood and kept shabbat. Which I think is Chabad's attitude; they're not CVS going to tell people to drive to shul, but they will say "we would love to see you at shul, and we are not going to be looking at how you get there?" Just like they don't say "yes, please wear jeans and a tank top," but they say "we are very happy to see you" no matter what people are wearing.

Lady Godiva

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 4:56 pm

Wow. This thread sure is heated up.

I just wanted to add that some people's makeup lasts longer than others. Usually dry skin and lips holds makeup for longer.
Also, there are ways of applying powdered makeup on Shabbat with a brush.
About lipstick, it could be lip dye that was put on before Shabbat and then roll on lip gloss on top.

You guys seriously need to relax. Nobody here keeps all of the 613 mitzvot that are possible for her to keep perfectly. I'm not saying that it's okay to break a mitzvah, just that we should all focus on bettering ourselves instead of freaking out about others' sins.