Dormant Swiss Bank Accounts

Tefila

Wed, Jan 19 2005, 7:31 pm

Fine they were forced that doesn't make one want it more, infact it should make one want it less !!!!!!!
That money is a joke and it is a mockery to all our loved ones!!!!!!

ForeverYoung
Guest

Wed, Jan 19 2005, 8:17 pm

but it's not mockery to let them use it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

gryp

Wed, Jan 19 2005, 10:18 pm

I just had a brainstorm- they should take all that money and pile it up into a fancy design to make it into a huge memorial to testify to the horrors of what happened. that way no one will ever forget. and I think they should out the memorial on the roof of the bank or right next to it!

ForeverYoung
Guest

Wed, Jan 19 2005, 10:19 pm

in how many days do you think the pile will be stolen? Exploding anger

sarahd

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 6:22 am

That's a lovely idea, RG - except to the people whose money you propose to use for the memorial, who might have had other plans for the money.

Freilich, I must confess that I don't understand your objections to this process. I haven't heard of anyone else with these problems, and I've spoken to lots of people on this topic.

Perhaps if I explain how this whole thing came about, it will clarify matters somewhat. You can skip this if you find it too long and boring.

Before WWII, Switzerland was, as it is till today, a very popular place to keep money, as you could deposit money and be pretty sure that it would be safe from being taxed or confiscated by your government. Therefore, hundreds of thousands of non-Swiss people had accounts in banks. This especially included Jews, who always had more reason to fear persecution and confiscation of their assets. Especially in the years leading up to the war, forward-looking Jews who had money deposited it for safekeeping in Swiss banks.

Tragically, the majority of these account owners were murdered in the Holocaust. After the war, when the survivors of these account owners tried to reclaim their assets, they were stonewalled by the banks, who refused to divulge the existence of accounts (as per Swiss banking secrecy law) or demanded death certificates or other such documents which they knew were unobtainable. People tried many times over the years and the banks always successfully shoved them out the doors without giving them anything. Meanwhile, they were using these funds to their own profit. The banks have a rule that after a certain amount of time passes without activity on an account, the account is declared dormant. They took the money from all these accounts, whose owners they were pretty sure would never be able to reclaim them, and used it for themselves.

About 10-15 years ago, a woman came to the UBS bank in Zurich with her lawyer and demanded that the bank return the money her father had deposited, or she would sue. They foolishly refused, and the woman takeh sued. It became a class action lawsuit in US Federal Court and the banks saw they were going to lose, so they settled. They paid $1.25 billion into a settlement fund which is controlled by the Court and agreed to provide bank records to a tribunal which would accept and adjudicate claims against the banks. This amount, naturally, is only a fraction of the money they stole from our people, but that was the settlement reached by the two sides.

Now, the money that is being distributed is not money the banks gained by extracting gold from the teeth of dead Jews, or however else you described it, Freilich. It's the money that was deposited by Jewish people before the war and it belongs to their heirs. You might not care if the banks benefit from that money, but the heirs certainly do care. I don't see where the mockery comes in (except that the amount that was settled for is a "choizek" compared to the amount that was stolen, but in any case not all the money is going to be distributed, because there are less claimants than expected.)

If you had your way, Freilich, you would not allow people to get back the money that belongs to them. Do you think that's fair? The banks stole it and you want to make sure that it never gets returned to the owners? You might want to rethink your stance in this matter.

gryp

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 9:43 am

you know, I do happen to agree with freilich, and ive heard this from many others as well. that money makes many people sick to their stomachs. for those who would like to reclaim their money, I have no problem with that- let them. but if it was me... I would want my memorial idea. or I would reclaim it and soon after publicly rip the check up into millions of pieces and make sure I got on the news. then I would take those millions of pieces and shellack (sp?) them and make it into a memorial with the others who would feel the same as me.

sarahd

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 10:19 am

I still don't understand why, and I don't think anyone seeing you rip up the check would understand it either. This isn't reparations from Germany, it's your own money. If someone would ch"v break into your house and steal your candlesticks that you inherited from your grandmother, and years later they'd be returned; and if you found out it was a terrorist organization that had stolen the candlesticks, would you proceed to melt them down and make a memorial out of them?

Tefila

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 11:56 am

Quote:

Freilich, I must confess that I don't understand your objections to this process. I haven't heard of anyone else with these problems, and I've spoken to lots of people on this topic.

There are others more then one and not incl me Exclamation

Who are not happy with this return policy I know 100%The reason you may not have heard about it would be b/c once people call or want more info those are the ones interested. The ones you don't hear about obviously, are the ones that are not! But they still exist!

Rivka

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 1:43 pm

Freilich I don't think you understand. The bank aren't doing it because they want to and it's out of the goodness of their heart so everyone should love them. They are doing it because they have to, this doesn't mean they love to do it, think of all the interest built up from it and also if they don't then people who want the money will just sue and they will have a lot more to lose.
I don't see why one shouldn't take what is rightfully theirs.

ForeverYoung
Guest

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 1:56 pm

Freilich, you didn't answer sarahd's last question Smile

gryp

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 2:58 pm

Quote:

This isn't reparations from Germany, it's your own money.

I understand that, but I cant think of one thing I would be comfortable using the money for. if others can, I dont have a problem with that. personally, as I said, the money makes me sick to even think about.

if it were a yerusha like a pair of candlesticks, I would be honored to continue using them for a mitzvah, because shabbos candles are something of kdusha. money is not the same...

Tefila

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:02 pm

Quote:

if it were a yerusha like a pair of candlesticks, I would be honored to continue using them for a mitzvah, because shabbos candles are something of kdusha. money is not the same...

Thank-You that's my point Smile

sarahd

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:18 pm

I speak to people other than those I deal with in the course of my work. When the people I meet hear where I work they almost invariably will tell me about their relative who had a prewar account and ask about filing a claim. But that's neither here nor there, and I'm not asking anyone with a moral objection to it to file a claim for an account. What I do ask, however, is that you spread the word about this and let people decide for themselves if they want to claim accounts.

gryp

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:22 pm

I understand sarahd, and its good work you do for those who are wondering what ever happened to those accounts.

sarahd

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:22 pm

RG wrote:

if it were a yerusha like a pair of candlesticks, I would be honored to continue using them for a mitzvah, because shabbos candles are something of kdusha. money is not the same...

A yerusha is a yerusha, whether it's money or candlesticks. There are lots of mitzvos you can do with money, and there is actually someone I know who told me that she doesn't need the money for herself, but will set up a foundation with it. Better than making a memorial with the check fragments, I should think.

gryp

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:35 pm

its just a matter of a personal preference... id rather have a memorial. Smile

zuncompany

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:43 pm

think of it this way- a living memorial! Take the money id it is your money and use it to educate your kids, give them weddings, help setting up a jewish home. Use it to give those who can't afford all that or don't know how. Not only is it a spit in the face that we are thriving, but its much more productive than a silly sculpture.

sara

gryp

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:46 pm

if you would like to do that, I dont have a problem with it, but I do not think the memorial would be just a silly sculpture. do you think that every memorial around the world with sculptures are just silly??

zuncompany

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:53 pm

I think a lot of them are a waste of money. Something small and modest I understand. What does it honestly do for the world? It obviously doesn't really remind them to never forget. Look at the statistics of how many in england know what Aushewitz is? I think only 40%. A sculpture does nothing for the world- action does. Chinnuch does. We are the living memorial! We are still here. Each time we learn Torah, each time we sing a niggun, each time we light Shabbos candles or braid a challah- That says it all. We won- they didn't. We are strong and will rebuild- you were a bunch of sickos that I"YH we will never allow to hurt us like that again.

sara

ForeverYoung
Guest

Thu, Jan 20 2005, 3:54 pm

How about giving $ to a zedaka & having a memorial board on it???