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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
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amother
Jasmine
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 Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:43 am
| Comptroller wrote: | | I think your best option is to quit teaching, or go to elementary school/kindergarten, and just leave your own young couples fly with their own wings. Go on a long vacation, change your phone number, name, address... |
Don't listen, OP. A lot of teachers are struggling.
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amother
Papaya
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:45 am
this.
How many times do people need to explain that this is not the regular teen behavior. This is something else.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 10:00 am
| amother Denim wrote: | My guess is that teachers don't always see the entire home picture, and also that even when they do, teens feed attitudes and behaviors off each other constantly. The things my teens learned from their friends- it is very hard to combat.
Quick example, I have been trying to get my 17 year old son his driver's permit for a while now. Firstly for ID and also because he is the type to drive his friend's car on a whim. So I figured, better with a permit than without. I'm not ready to get him driving lessons yet but with a permit he'd be a step closer. He will not read the driver's manual, the permit book. Refuses flat out. He says all his friends cheated on it and passed without an issue. None of them read the permit book and he won't be the one who does. He knows I don't go for cheating. I told him it's not happening, he will not cheat to pass. He can read the book like every teen besides his friends and do his best to pass. We are in a standstill. So what did I gain? He doesn't have an easy ID card to hold onto, he'll end up driving without a permit at some point soon, and he thinks I'm the strictest stupidest most interfering mother. Hopefully in there he is also learning a lesson in honesty. Who do I have to thank? His friends who were somehow allowed to cheat on their permit tests. Maybe I'm proving the point now about parents who don't say no to their kids. Or they don't know what's going on with their kids. |
I am sitting in front of the computer downing french fries bcz. my son had a meltdown after we refused to let him go to another soccer game. He goes to an average of 5 a year. We explained that being old enough to go means being old enough to get up on time for school and he seems to be having a hard time with that. So now he informed us that we're making him want to not do well in school. His older brother is no longer frum- we live in fear of that happening again so we're constantly trying to walk a fine line.
I devoted myself to my kids, but was actually a lot stricter than my parents were with us- we didn't have the money to be as indulgent as my parents were. And we had more kids and thus requested more help cleaning up for shabbos etc.
If I at age 50 spoke to my parents the way my kids talk to me I'd get a huge dressing down and be told how to behave in no uncertain terms. But when I want to request that my kids address us with respect my husband warns me that if we discipline they'll just stop coming home to visit. We majorly went wrong and I don't know where.
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amother
Wallflower
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 10:25 am
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I don’t know what you’re bragging about but today’s 60 year olds are nasty self centered ppl, I know a few 55+ year olds they’re are all….. maybe cause they were forced to behave so they came across as respectful ppl but at a certain point the true colors come out… no one has hurt me more than the 55+ year olds in my life…
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amother
Amber
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:11 am
| amother Wallflower wrote: | | I don’t know what you’re bragging about but today’s 60 year olds are nasty self centered ppl, I know a few 55+ year olds they’re are all….. maybe cause they were forced to behave so they came across as respectful ppl but at a certain point the true colors come out… no one has hurt me more than the 55+ year olds in my life… |
I feel like the 30-40 year olds are stuck between the un-self-aware, slightly toxic 50-60s and the bratty entitled teen-20s. But at least the older generation knows how to sacrifice, how to give, how to put their nose to the grindstone, and how to keep quiet when necessary.
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:14 am
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | Does he even realize the consequences of being caught without a driver's license?
IMHO you need a Rabbi/mentor involved. It's not acceptable to ignore learning material which is compulsory. A car is a deadly vehicle!
Tell your son from me I wouldn't pay a dime towards bail or costs for a lawyer or car repairs if he would get caught without a proper license. Not.A.Dime. |
Teenagers do not imagine that consequences will happen to them when they do something stupid purposely.
He has friends driving without a permit for over a year and they haven't gotten caught. He has no reason to believe it will happen to him.
He also does not have more than a few dollars to his name. Of course I'd end up paying for his mistakes. Practically speaking. He needs to finish school, graduate, and keep growing up. Nothing can get in the way of that.
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:16 am
| amother Mint wrote: | | What do you mean by cheating? Do you mean they study a list of questions given to them? That’s not cheating; that’s freely available online. The DMV only rotates about 100 questions in their tests. (NJ) This how my friends and I did it, we just did practice tests. |
No by cheating I mean, they take the test online and call a friend to help them with the answers.
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:18 am
| amother Stoneblue wrote: | | He cheats, he doesn't have permission to use your car. He can pay for his own lessons and use the driving teachers car. I also told my kids they need to pass their permit and get their license without any cheating at all. Zero. Or no chance they can drive my car or my husbands. |
This is sensible. Now what would you do if you didn't allow them to use your car but they took it anyway?
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:20 am
| justforfun87 wrote: | | Simple answer, he will get pulled over and ticketed or his ability to get a license will be suspended. |
Teenagers do not believe these things will happen to them. It isn't even the remotest possibility in their minds.
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amother
Navyblue
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:25 am
| amother Denim wrote: | | No by cheating I mean, they take the test online and call a friend to help them with the answers. |
Ds just took the test. I thought there was a video pointed at you, the test taker?
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:33 am
| amother Fuchsia wrote: | I am sitting in front of the computer downing french fries bcz. my son had a meltdown after we refused to let him go to another soccer game. He goes to an average of 5 a year. We explained that being old enough to go means being old enough to get up on time for school and he seems to be having a hard time with that. So now he informed us that we're making him want to not do well in school. His older brother is no longer frum- we live in fear of that happening again so we're constantly trying to walk a fine line.
I devoted myself to my kids, but was actually a lot stricter than my parents were with us- we didn't have the money to be as indulgent as my parents were. And we had more kids and thus requested more help cleaning up for shabbos etc.
If I at age 50 spoke to my parents the way my kids talk to me I'd get a huge dressing down and be told how to behave in no uncertain terms. But when I want to request that my kids address us with respect my husband warns me that if we discipline they'll just stop coming home to visit. We majorly went wrong and I don't know where. |
Commiserating. My son also has poor school attendance. The principal and teachers, what they must think of us. I woke my son up three times this morning and he said: "can you stop with your motivational speeches and close my door?" He's cute but he's in bed instead of in school!
Its super complicated when husbands have different ideas than of us of how to handle teens. My husband lets them be and I'm the bad guy. I wake them up, I set the standards and I want to hold them accountable. But if my husband isn't on board, it only works to a certain extent. Once my authority is rejected though, my husband will have a private talk with them which is usually very effective.
I know we must not parent out of fear. We must show them right and wrong despite their reactions.
My daughter said to me: you don't know anything, you are from the 1900s.
I was too shocked to answer but my husband came through. He said, "Really? Did you want to be born to a 10 year old mother?"
She hasn't said that again.
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amother
Wallflower
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:34 am
| amother Amber wrote: | | I feel like the 30-40 year olds are stuck between the un-self-aware, slightly toxic 50-60s and the bratty entitled teen-20s. But at least the older generation knows how to sacrifice, how to give, how to put their nose to the grindstone, and how to keep quiet when necessary. | j
Ummm not in my experience
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:35 am
| amother Navyblue wrote: | | Ds just took the test. I thought there was a video pointed at you, the test taker? |
Yes but either no one's actually watching the camera or they find a way to hide their phones from it.
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giftedmom
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:42 am
| amother Amber wrote: | | I feel like the 30-40 year olds are stuck between the un-self-aware, slightly toxic 50-60s and the bratty entitled teen-20s. But at least the older generation knows how to sacrifice, how to give, how to put their nose to the grindstone, and how to keep quiet when necessary. |
Yes and no
The younger set isn’t parenting 20 year olds yet. (Their attitudes still are shocking I admit)
I am parenting pre-teens now, and seeing the attitudes around me is giving me an extra push to instill responsibility and accountability in my kids. Attitude is not tolerated. Hopefully we can be the change for gen alpha.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:43 am
I have a question for the people who say every generation complains about the younger generation (which is true, of course).
Imagine you’re me, a high school teacher in a BY with a good reputation. Imagine that you gave the first test of the school year, and beforehand you gave out a review sheet and went over it with the girls. Fair test, no surprises, no trick questions. Imagine that after the girls saw their marks, there was a long line of girls, over 2/3 of the class I KID YOU NOT, waiting to talk with you by break. And every single girl except two said some variation of “I worked so hard, I studied for hours, I deserve a better grade”!! And then ARGUED with you when you didn’t bump them up to the grade they “deserved”, saying you obviously didn’t teach it well enough if so many girls didn’t get an A, and walked away muttering under their breath when you didn’t cave in. Keep in mind most of these kids got in the B+ to A- range on the first test of the year.
Twenty years ago there were maybe two girls per class who would act like this in high school. Now it’s the majority. They will insist and argue and keep at it. They 100% believe they’re right and that they’re fighting injustice.
Imagine you’re me, and you remember the set, angry faces of certain girls who throughout the year, folded their arms and stared at you as they insisted that they deserved a better mark. Who treated you like dirt. AND THOSE GIRLS GOT INTO TOP SEMINARIES.
Would you be okay with this behavior and say it’s not a big deal?
It is so tiring.
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amother
Honeydew
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:46 am
| amother Charcoal wrote: | | People have it backwards. Teens become self centered when they learn that otherwise things will never go their way. |
Exactly.
When I was a teenager the kids who were selfish got the jobs and were head whatever. While I got nothing because I never talked back.
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amother
Vermilion
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:47 am
I don’t think it’s ok.
But where do you think this is coming from? Can we try to understand it and be solution-oriented?
I guess I didn’t understand that this was a venting post. In which case: yes, it’s exhausting trying to teach and parent. It is tiring.
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amother
Denim
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:51 am
| amother OP wrote: | I have a question for the people who say every generation complains about the younger generation (which is true, of course).
Imagine you’re me, a high school teacher in a BY with a good reputation. Imagine that you gave the first test of the school year, and beforehand you gave out a review sheet and went over it with the girls. Fair test, no surprises, no trick questions. Imagine that after the girls saw their marks, there was a long line of girls, over 2/3 of the class I KID YOU NOT, waiting to talk with you by break. And every single girl except two said some variation of “I worked so hard, I studied for hours, I deserve a better grade”!! And then ARGUED with you when you didn’t bump them up to the grade they “deserved”, saying you obviously didn’t teach it well enough if so many girls didn’t get an A, and walked away muttering under their breath when you didn’t cave in. Keep in mind most of these kids got in the B+ to A- range on the first test of the year.
Twenty years ago there were maybe two girls per class who would act like this in high school. Now it’s the majority. They will insist and argue and keep at it. They 100% believe they’re right and that they’re fighting injustice.
Imagine you’re me, and you remember the set, angry faces of certain girls who throughout the year, folded their arms and stared at you as they insisted that they deserved a better mark. Who treated you like dirt. AND THOSE GIRLS GOT INTO TOP SEMINARIES.
Would you be okay with this behavior and say it’s not a big deal?
It is so tiring. |
As a mother of a high school girl I can totally see this happening.
I will just say that the girls respect and straighten out for the teachers who hold their ground and authority more than for the teachers who make themselves shmattes for them.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:53 am
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Yes. And it is exhausting.
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amother
Navyblue
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Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:58 am
| amother OP wrote: | I have a question for the people who say every generation complains about the younger generation (which is true, of course).
Imagine you’re me, a high school teacher in a BY with a good reputation. Imagine that you gave the first test of the school year, and beforehand you gave out a review sheet and went over it with the girls. Fair test, no surprises, no trick questions. Imagine that after the girls saw their marks, there was a long line of girls, over 2/3 of the class I KID YOU NOT, waiting to talk with you by break. And every single girl except two said some variation of “I worked so hard, I studied for hours, I deserve a better grade”!! And then ARGUED with you when you didn’t bump them up to the grade they “deserved”, saying you obviously didn’t teach it well enough if so many girls didn’t get an A, and walked away muttering under their breath when you didn’t cave in. Keep in mind most of these kids got in the B+ to A- range on the first test of the year.
Twenty years ago there were maybe two girls per class who would act like this in high school. Now it’s the majority. They will insist and argue and keep at it. They 100% believe they’re right and that they’re fighting injustice.
Imagine you’re me, and you remember the set, angry faces of certain girls who throughout the year, folded their arms and stared at you as they insisted that they deserved a better mark. Who treated you like dirt. AND THOSE GIRLS GOT INTO TOP SEMINARIES.
Would you be okay with this behavior and say it’s not a big deal?
It is so tiring. |
I think this is a different issue than your OP.
As a mom of mostly boys, my go to comparison is girls high schools to boys, not today versus 20 years ago. Boys in yeshiva are encouraged, regularly and routinely as I can see, to argue and debate. Whether it's gemara or for a grade. I'm constantly shocked when I hear stories of how the boys argue with rebbeim, but this is encouraged. According to dh, it was always like this.
And for that matter, we can also talk about the general expected decorum in yeshivos versus girls schools. Girls are socialized to follow the rules, keep quiet and behave. Boys have different expectations. But maybe now it's starting to change for girls.
Personally, as a former goody goody, I think it's more beneficial for children to learn how to be assertive, question the rules, and respectfully question authority.
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