Is non-vaxxing a reason to nix a shidduch? Poll

amother

Mulberry

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:13 pm

It’s alarming that ocean county has seen one of the most drastic declines in vaccinations in the last few years, and at the same time the amount for gun permit requests coming out of Toms River and area has shot up.

You can try to coin it vaccine cautious or whatever, but it is suspicious that an entire community consisting of people who mostly don’t get higher education, have suddenly become the leading county in the nation for understanding medicine. Because we are such an interconnected community, and rechel preaches to Mechel, and suddenly every disease under the sun can be identified, linked and explained by Mrs Yentel Shpitzkupf from Lakewood. No thank you. I’m not crazy medical, but I’ll rather marry someone that’s not dumb enough that they believe voodoo science. Our community is slowly morphing into wild hillbillies.

lakewood mom

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:18 pm

Trademark wrote:

It's not about the research.

Like I said it's a red flag for other things. For example like extremist and or black and white thinking. Thinking that they are smarter than everyone else. Zero regard for authority/experts like doctors and rabbis. It often comes along with conspiracy theories. Often they put the ideology before yiddishkeit, common sense, or what's good for their children.

Some of the posters here who are anti-vax use extreme language, are extremely overbearing, and think everyone else is unenlightened.

Of course not everyone is like that but it often goes together. That's why people are wary. It's not only about not vaccinating it's also about the entire ideology that comes with it.

Thank you for answering. I honestly appreciate it. If you would know me in real life- you’d probably never know that I recently stopped vaccinating my kids (though they pretty much got almost everything.)
I am not an extremist, nor do I think I am smarter than everybody. I have a few Rabbanim that dh and I are close to, and I will seek their advice as needed. I go to doctors and bring my children to doctors as well. However, I will respectfully question them if needed. I have always done this- as I like to understand things. (As far as I know, getting a second opinion isn’t a new phenomenon. Many aren’t happy with a diagnosis or treatment and want to get another opinion.)
I know that my decisions are very much aligned with Yiddishkeit- in fact that are quite a few Gedolim that share this ideology.
I believe what makes us different- or what makes me different from the way I was a few years ago, is the fact that I researched and have an understanding behind vaccinations, their history, ingredients and pros/ cons. Information that was spoon fed and indoctrinated is now easily refutable.
But you wouldn’t know this from having interactions with me. It doesn’t effect my family and friends that are privy to this- we all do what’s works for ourselves/ family. If anyone has a question, I will gladly answer.
I hear what you’re saying about the stereotype that some people who don’t vaccinate have. In their defense- they had to put up with a very lonely battle, lots of criticism, an enormous amount of people name calling them and ostracizing their families. (I wonder if anyone who was so disgusting to these families actually took the time to ask them why they’re doing what they’re doing and to share their information…) Many people have to build strong defenses which appear differently in order to protect themselves and their families.
Just my own thoughts on the matter.

amother

Mulberry

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:22 pm

lakewood mom wrote:

From the posts I’ve seen from you regarding smartphones, I’m going to disagree that you are a very open minded person. I don’t know you in real life, but I’ve yet to find a person that doesn’t consider themself level headed and balanced. The others are to make that call.

lakewood mom

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:36 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

It’s alarming that ocean county has one of the most drastic declines in vaccinations in the last few years, and at the same time the amount for gun permit requests coming out of Toms River and area has shot up.

You can try to coin it vaccine cautious or whatever, but it is suspicious that an entire community consisting of people who mostly don’t get higher education, have suddenly become the leading county in the nation for understanding medicine. Because we are such an interconnected community, and rechel preaches to Mechel, and suddenly every disease under the sun can be identified, linked and explained by Mrs Yentel Shpitzkupf from Lakewood. No thank you. I’m not crazy medical, but I’ll rather marry someone that’s not dumb enough that they believe voodoo science. Our community is slowly morphing into wild hillbillies.

@Trademark the tone of this post reeks… it seems that there are people who may not be nice from both sides of the spectrum.

“… dumb enough that they believe voodoo science.” What exactly is this voodoo science? Please explain. I dare you.
I think many members of your wild hillbilly community started mistrusting their doctors- which the medical field brought on themselves. When you have some big name pediatricians in Lakewood pushing the covid vaccines on children- you begin to wonder if you should listen to anything else they’ve been pushing as well. This brought MANY smart women in Lakewood to start digging and empowering themselves with information. I watched how the FDA approved the covid vax for children… I saw the process and wasn’t pleased. I started looking into how other vaccines were tested and approved. Can you imagine my surprise when I discovered that vaccines were never tested against an actual saline placebo? You speak of a community lacking a higher education… I went to Touro as did many of my friends. In fact, most people I know went to college of some sort. We were taught the way something is supposed to be experimented on… and this wasn’t it. It’s actually not so hard to find peered reviews and information. There are also courses given- books to read (with footnotes on each sentence as a backup- Turtles All The Way Down), and doctors that switched from being pro vaccines to changing their stance. The vaccine hesitancy is here with reason. The medical field brought it on themselves.
There is no voodoo science- though, please, share what you know- just mothers doing their own research. When you weren’t given informed consent but simply indoctrinated your whole life- everything begins to unravel once you pull on that crucial thread of information. Sure, we’ve been told that vaccines eradicated diseases. Do a tiny homework and you’ll find that the diseases were almost fully eradicated before the vaccines were rolled out. Hygiene and better living conditions played a huge role in that. Does your doctor tell you that the vitamin k vaccine that you give your newborn comes with a black box warning? Does she tell you about the ingredients inside the vaccines? I can go on and on- but educating you isn’t my intent. I would love to hear about the voodoo science that is hillbillies are dumb enough to believe.

lakewood mom

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:40 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

🤣🤣🤣
I wonder which posts you’ve read that I commented on. Please screenshot and post a picture. I’d say to PM me but you’re hiding behind imamother. I think I commented a while back on one thread about smartphones. I don’t even remember the conversation.
However, I don’t recall saying that I’m open minded, level headed or balanced. I said I’m not an extremist.

Last edited by lakewood mom on Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Trademark

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:46 pm

lakewood mom wrote:

To me it's not nice versus nasty.

Obviously, just because a person is not anti-vax doesn't mean they are a nice person.

You talk about doing research and doing your homework because you are seeing it from anti-vax point of view. For most people that's not relevant when they say they are wary of anti-vax people.

lakewood mom

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:51 pm

Trademark wrote:

I pretty much vaccinated my children with everything. I started researching and questioning 2-3 years ago. So I’m not coming from an anti vax point of view. I’m coming from a stance of asking people to understand that while we’ve all been taught one way- maybe there’s room for people who chose the hard route of going against the narrative and made different choices based on their research.
ETA: meaning, we’ve been told that “anti-vax” is crazy, bad, germ spreaders, etc. This smear campaign was done intentionally. So many women on this website are into being DLZ in the hardest situations- so why can’t we all take a deep breath, a step back and wonder- perhaps these women know something we don’t. I can’t imagine that mothers would intentionally choose to put their children in harms way.

#BestBubby

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:15 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

Your post is so ignorant.

Most anti vaxxers are not ignorant hillbillies but upper class college educated, including many PhDs who are trained in how to research.

Anti vaxxers did not adopt their position based off what their neighbor preaches but by reading articles and studies by medical doctors and PhD scientists who did their own studies and/or based on their own clinical experience and who are blowing the whistle on the dangers of vaccines.

I think those who blindly trust medical establishment who will say such false things as "a man can get pregnant " in order to protect their careers.....

Last edited by #BestBubby on Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

GLUE

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 7:01 am

Amother Mulberry-
I have been reading the history of US health care on and off for the last few years and my conclusion why the anti-vax community has been growing is lack of access. When health care is hard to get or very expensive alternative medicine gets very popular. The current rise of the anti-vax movement, which has grown and shrunk since the 1600's, can be connected to lack of access.
I don't think it is a coincidence that in the early part of the 2000's there where stacks of articles about the lack of health care coverage many of the nations children's had the anti-vax community grew. Many parents could not afford to get their kids health insurance. At the same time many private Pediatricians where retiring or going into group practice.
As a result there where a lot of people who did not have a pediatrician that they trusted to take there kids to. They had know one to ask there questions to. It became easier to convince parents that the only reason the Dr. are pushing vaccines is because of $$$.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 9:03 am

GLUE wrote:

May I suggest you vary your sources of reading material then? That is very not representative of the fact that majority of people who go that way are middle-upper class very educated. I would be curious if you read some of the other teams books and tried to put the two versions of reality together in a cohesive story for people who are relaxed about the topic. I think trying to get his version, her version and then come with one story of what really happened would be very interesting.

amother

Charcoal

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 9:41 am

GLUE wrote:

How would you explain the recent rise of people that don’t want to vaccinate? I think that you can get a vaccine almost anywhere. You can go into any pharmacy. There’s no lack of information.

amother

SandyBrown

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 9:56 am

#BestBubby wrote:

It's more than Not vaxxing.

How do non vaxxers get their kids into schools and camps?

Many vax against their will because of the above issue.

Those of you who don't vax, how do you get your kids into school?

I know someone who pulled her kid out of a top school to a new not regular school because of the vax issue. Her kid is loosing out socially, hashkafic and education . I don’t think it’s a fair trade off.

If someone expresses resentment to vaxing but does it anyways because they realize that the pregnant preschool teacher might not want to be exposed to measles or chickenpox I would consider them.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 11:55 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

If it’s an allergy that compromises the child’s health , you would send your child? With food allergies, the school usually accommodates. With vaccines, there are no accommodations. I’m sure it was not an easy decision for the parents.

I dont understand this anology.

im not 100% convinced that vaccines are the be all and end all. of course there are ingredients in there that are not the greatest. and of course we'd all love to be eating unprocessed food, making our own preservative free homesteading tra la la life...

BUT there has to be nuance in every medical discussion, not just vaccines. take birth control pills for example. it would be very easy for me to come on here and lecture about the how awful BC is for you.. do you know the history of birthcontrol pills? do you know how they were tested.. or werent??do you know the long term side affects that they can cause?
I can scare the living daylights out of you..
however, you have to take in the broader picture.. take in the patient and weigh the pros and cons.
for many women the alternative (getting pregnant) is WORTH taking the risks of birth control, and being honest - I would venture to say the average woman does NOT have crazy LONG TERM issues from the pill.

so with vaccines.. I think that they contain awful ingredients. but the same way I would consider any medical treatment against the risks according to what I know and what ive learned, I would consider vaccinating my child.

bec lets be honest - its very nice to yell poison! autism! horror! but I personally dont know a single person in my life that has had a crazy extreme reaction to a regulated childhood vaccine (not talking about covid)

SO all that being said is that I wont deny the potential risks of vaccines but I dont think its worse than any other medication. and if you are taking the FULL picture into account then its not so black and white EITHER WAY.

amother

DarkOrange

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 12:02 pm

Not weighing in on this topic at all, but just wanted to discuss the term "research". Googling something and then reading everything about the topic is not actually "research". In fact for any topic under the sun you could probably find a thousand articles supporting or opposing (depending on what you put in the search bar). If you have ever actually taken classes in research and learned how research is actually conducted and how to read actual scientific research articles critically (the actual articles published in scientific or medical journals, not someone's interpretation of the article), then you can read the scientific and/or medical journals yourself and make an informed decision based on actual findings and your knowledge of how researchers skew results.
Just putting that out there, because it is a pet peeve of mine when people say they "researched" a specific topic extensively and I cannot imagine that they've actually sat for many hours in university libraries or laboratories critically reading actual research.
Again, not taking sides because articles written in journals are always ALWAYS biased in one direction or another. But if you are going to say you've done extensive research on something at least be honest that you have not done proper research (unless of course you have sat in university libraries for many hours, in which case kol hakovod to you.)