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-> Parenting our children
-> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
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amother
OP
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 Wed, May 08 2024, 3:47 pm
Has anyone gotten an ASD diagnosis for a child who clearly does not have ASD just to get ABA benefits from insurance? I know there are honesty concerns here, but aside from that, Has there been any consequences later on? Is it possible to remove from their record? I worry more for my son to find out about it when he’s older and start questioning if something’s wrong with him, when it’s really just an incapable and unwilling preschool.
For more info, read below.
I live in a relatively small Jewish community where we have just two frum preschools (in-Home morahs are not a thing). My 4 yr old son is and always has been an active, mischievous boy. He gets a thrill out of getting a reaction out of people (think instigating, not shy in front of adults, silly) and always gets the attention. He loves to test his limits and has a very good sense of when and with whom he can. He is not delayed in any way (says everything, riding two wheeler bike at 3, etc) and even seems a bit advanced (playing with kids a few years older etc).
The preschool has been fed up with him since day one, saying that since he’s a leader, the kids follow him and make trouble too, and that no teacher or assistant can manage him, and he needs a shadow in order to return the following year. They’ve suspended him multiple times (he pulled down his pants at 3, left the classroom without permission) The only other preschool in town is full.
(They actually had us get a shadow when he was 2 for throwing a chair but the shadow said there was nothing for her to do, and that other kids need it more than him.)
She had me try physiotherapy which did nothing for him (he has a strong core naturally) and I had to hire therapists, get in home crisis intervention therapy… when he’s really just a lively happy kid who needs strong boundaries and stimulation.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to cripple him for life with such a diagnosis but I need him to get through the next year before he can graduate preschool.
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miami85
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Wed, May 08 2024, 3:49 pm
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It bothers me tremendously that the insurance system is like this. Why won't they acknowledge other conditions with strong behaviors--like ADHD, ODD, that are NOT ASD so that people can get accurate diagnoses and not fudge the numbers. I'm a school psychologist and it makes my job VERY difficult evaluating when "every kids with behaviors" ends up being "on the spectrum" rather than properly diagnosed.
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amother
Royalblue
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Wed, May 08 2024, 3:50 pm
With hipaa and all you only give information to whoever you want to give it to. You never have to disclose it and random people can’t find out.
It sounds more like adhd and I doubt aba will help him so probably not worth it.
I would pursue play therapy who can work with him on regulating and calming down skills. And maybe Ot for a sensory diet and input.
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amother
Camellia
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Wed, May 08 2024, 3:51 pm
I would sooner move than give my child a fake autism diagnosis and I have two kids with legit diagnosis so it’s not like I’m scared of them.
Can you homeschool him for a few years? Kids like this do really well being homeschooled if you are able to give him plenty of outside stimulation.
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amother
Rose
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:00 pm
Don't do it.
It will be on their health insurance record. Even with HIPAA it can still follow you...
Any reputable Psychologist won't do it. It puts their license at risk. If they are willing to do it I wouldn't want them seeing my kid.
I am a therapist who has kids with ND. One with actual autism and I still can't get my kid services because of my location. My kid is higher functioning so therefore doesn't "qualify".
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amother
Camellia
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:04 pm
| amother Rose wrote: | Don't do it.
It will be on their health insurance record. Even with HIPAA it can still follow you...
Any reputable Psychologist won't do it. It puts their license at risk. If they are willing to do it I wouldn't want them seeing my kid.
I am a therapist who has kids with ND. One with actual autism and I still can't get my kid services because of my location. My kid is higher functioning so therefore doesn't "qualify". |
ASD diagnosis isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Besides for aba my kids qualified for ot, pt, speech. None of which helped and most of which he didn’t get anyway because there were no available providers.
Op there are other things you can do first such as taking him off food coloring, msg and gluten.
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amother
Royalblue
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:04 pm
| amother Rose wrote: | Don't do it.
It will be on their health insurance record. Even with HIPAA it can still follow you...
Any reputable Psychologist won't do it. It puts their license at risk. If they are willing to do it I wouldn't want them seeing my kid.
I am a therapist who has kids with ND. One with actual autism and I still can't get my kid services because of my location. My kid is higher functioning so therefore doesn't "qualify". |
What’s a health insurance record? And no it cannot follow you. You need to sign you are ok with each provider seeing your records. No one can just access a diagnosis without your permission.
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mha3484
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:05 pm
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I have 3 boys with adhd all presenting very differently and aba would not have helped them. Schools like to push it but it doesnt mean its good for your child. Even if you get past the honesty issue, who said this even helps in the end?
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miami85
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:19 pm
| amother Rose wrote: | Don't do it.
It will be on their health insurance record. Even with HIPAA it can still follow you...
Any reputable Psychologist won't do it. It puts their license at risk. If they are willing to do it I wouldn't want them seeing my kid.
I am a therapist who has kids with ND. One with actual autism and I still can't get my kid services because of my location. My kid is higher functioning so therefore doesn't "qualify". |
Not necessarily. I had a top Developmental Pediatrician tell me "It depends on what you want to call it"--if they meet the DSM criteria--which are very vague and easy to meet in most cases of extreme behavior or any combination of developmental concerns, then they can get services.
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amother
Bellflower
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:37 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Has anyone gotten an ASD diagnosis for a child who clearly does not have ASD just to get ABA benefits from insurance? I know there are honesty concerns here, but aside from that, Has there been any consequences later on? Is it possible to remove from their record? I worry more for my son to find out about it when he’s older and start questioning if something’s wrong with him, when it’s really just an incapable and unwilling preschool.
For more info, read below.
I live in a relatively small Jewish community where we have just two frum preschools (in-Home morahs are not a thing). My 4 yr old son is and always has been an active, mischievous boy. He gets a thrill out of getting a reaction out of people (think instigating, not shy in front of adults, silly) and always gets the attention. He loves to test his limits and has a very good sense of when and with whom he can. He is not delayed in any way (says everything, riding two wheeler bike at 3, etc) and even seems a bit advanced (playing with kids a few years older etc).
The preschool has been fed up with him since day one, saying that since he’s a leader, the kids follow him and make trouble too, and that no teacher or assistant can manage him, and he needs a shadow in order to return the following year. They’ve suspended him multiple times (he pulled down his pants at 3, left the classroom without permission) The only other preschool in town is full.
(They actually had us get a shadow when he was 2 for throwing a chair but the shadow said there was nothing for her to do, and that other kids need it more than him.)
She had me try physiotherapy which did nothing for him (he has a strong core naturally) and I had to hire therapists, get in home crisis intervention therapy… when he’s really just a lively happy kid who needs strong boundaries and stimulation.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to cripple him for life with such a diagnosis but I need him to get through the next year before he can graduate preschool. |
A child who is advanced mentally and behind socially can be called twice exceptional. read the book "Differently Wired". this doesn't sound like a kid who just needs strong boundaries. he may well qualify for an actual diagnosis, probably not ASD but maybe something like: ODD, ADHD, etc.
anyways ABA probably won't help here. an OT who focuses on reflex integration and sensory is probably your best bet, services wise.
insurance wise, I think you can test out in the future to lose the diagnosis. take another evaluation and not pass it.
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amother
Jean
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:41 pm
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Wow op I thought I wrote this post mid sleep haze.. literally going through the same thing only my son is 3. I’ve been contemplating it for days.
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amother
Rose
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:41 pm
| amother Royalblue wrote: | | What’s a health insurance record? And no it cannot follow you. You need to sign you are ok with each provider seeing your records. No one can just access a diagnosis without your permission. |
It all goes on the health insurance record if you want to use them to pay for anything. That is what you agree when you ask them to pay for anything.
When you sign up for life insurance they make you sign permission to see your health records.
Some places ask you to sign for those records- do you fully read every paper that a doctors office asks you to sign when you go in?
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amother
Seafoam
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:44 pm
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I would not commit fraud but would get him evaluated by an honest professional.
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amother
Vanilla
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:53 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Has anyone gotten an ASD diagnosis for a child who clearly does not have ASD just to get ABA benefits from insurance? I know there are honesty concerns here, but aside from that, Has there been any consequences later on? Is it possible to remove from their record? I worry more for my son to find out about it when he’s older and start questioning if something’s wrong with him, when it’s really just an incapable and unwilling preschool.
For more info, read below.
I live in a relatively small Jewish community where we have just two frum preschools (in-Home morahs are not a thing). My 4 yr old son is and always has been an active, mischievous boy. He gets a thrill out of getting a reaction out of people (think instigating, not shy in front of adults, silly) and always gets the attention. He loves to test his limits and has a very good sense of when and with whom he can. He is not delayed in any way (says everything, riding two wheeler bike at 3, etc) and even seems a bit advanced (playing with kids a few years older etc).
The preschool has been fed up with him since day one, saying that since he’s a leader, the kids follow him and make trouble too, and that no teacher or assistant can manage him, and he needs a shadow in order to return the following year. They’ve suspended him multiple times (he pulled down his pants at 3, left the classroom without permission) The only other preschool in town is full.
(They actually had us get a shadow when he was 2 for throwing a chair but the shadow said there was nothing for her to do, and that other kids need it more than him.)
She had me try physiotherapy which did nothing for him (he has a strong core naturally) and I had to hire therapists, get in home crisis intervention therapy… when he’s really just a lively happy kid who needs strong boundaries and stimulation.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to cripple him for life with such a diagnosis but I need him to get through the next year before he can graduate preschool. |
My dd is the same way. She has adhd and the school was not able to control her so we got her an asd diagnosis and she's been having aba therapy this year and it's really helped her alot. She has individual attention and she's able to get her energy out in a controlled and appropriate way.
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amother
OP
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:55 pm
To clarify: I know ABA is not for him. It is purely to pacify the school. They know he won’t be able to get a diagnosis, but they also know that there are ppl who know how to play the system.
I cannot homeschool him- I work, and besides, I’d lose my sanity.
He is not behind socially at all- if anything, he is advanced in that category too.
The ADHD is a possible diagnosis, but I know that his diagnosis is completely dependent on what and how I share. Other than spending thousands and hours on a neuro-psych evaluation (which the school wanted lol) I don’t see a way to accurately diagnose my child.
We’re currently working with a child play therapist, but it will not solve our problem of getting him into school for the following year.
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#BestBubby
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Wed, May 08 2024, 4:57 pm
Can't someone with an ASD diagnosis get reevaluated in the future and lose the diagnosis?
I don't think it's necessarily a lifetime diagnosis.
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amother
Bellflower
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Wed, May 08 2024, 5:11 pm
| amother OP wrote: | To clarify: I know ABA is not for him. It is purely to pacify the school. They know he won’t be able to get a diagnosis, but they also know that there are ppl who know how to play the system.
I cannot homeschool him- I work, and besides, I’d lose my sanity.
He is not behind socially at all- if anything, he is advanced in that category too.
The ADHD is a possible diagnosis, but I know that his diagnosis is completely dependent on what and how I share. Other than spending thousands and hours on a neuro-psych evaluation (which the school wanted lol) I don’t see a way to accurately diagnose my child.
We’re currently working with a child play therapist, but it will not solve our problem of getting him into school for the following year. |
I don't understand what you're saying. As someone who did 2 very lengthy full evaluations (one private and one thru board of ed) and ended up with both asd and adhd. (Side point, I plan to test him out of both labels, imyh in another year and see how he does)
The parent observations are only one part of the evaluation. And most of what I provided was concrete objective data like stories or incidents.
A professional evaluator is needed for a diagnosis, yes. You want to scam a diagnosis over the phone from someone who hasn't even seen your child? That I wouldn't do. That's not even called playing the system, let's be honest, it's straight fraud.
In my case I really didn't think I'd get asd and honestly I don't think he's asd. But his behaviors and abilities are low enough to qualify for the diagnosis as established by 2 separate professionals. Your kid can be smart and still fail the test of what they're looking for especially since the spectrum got widened.
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amother
Carnation
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Wed, May 08 2024, 5:50 pm
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I was told the spectrum is very broad. Even if your child shows any behaviors on the spectrum. They can get honest diagnosis. If it’s not your primary dr- it’s not on permanent record. My child got OT , speech and ABA which I could never have offered otherwise.
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mha3484
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Wed, May 08 2024, 5:57 pm
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I am saying this as the mother of multiple boys who are not easy children. If your school is this rigid in preschool it’s only going to get worse and if your son internalizes this deep dislike for him it will affect him for years. It’s not my place to tell someone to move but I would really think long term if a school like this is for you.
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amother
Royalblue
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Wed, May 08 2024, 5:59 pm
| amother Rose wrote: | It all goes on the health insurance record if you want to use them to pay for anything. That is what you agree when you ask them to pay for anything.
When you sign up for life insurance they make you sign permission to see your health records.
Some places ask you to sign for those records- do you fully read every paper that a doctors office asks you to sign when you go in? |
Places like life insurance which you sign permission to see all your records, and doctors don't care. That can't hurt anyone. Besides that most of the time you just see therapy billed and not the diagnosis so they don't see asd. But these are all harmless. Shidduchim, school, camp etc.. has no way of getting hold of any of this info.
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