Lubavitch-non Lubavitch

supermom

Thu, Nov 25 2004, 5:49 am

okay RG let me tell you that it wasn't only me that must be having this complaint because when I went into one of the sites yael took it out go to oral- page number 2 you will see that yael took everything out. so sorry that was my first backup I have to go through everything again so when I find another one I will let you know

gryp

Thu, Nov 25 2004, 8:10 am

I think whoever has a problem with another's posts, must bring proof with quotes to show what is offensive. otherwise how can we know? I am not saying there was never arguing, and I clearly remember the posts that were deleted. but from now on, if you think a post is offensive, lets see the exact words.

and I do remember from the quotes that is was not lubavitch saying other hashkafas dont count, it was an anonymous "amother" claiming that lubavitch hashkafa/halacha was completely different from her way. nobody seemed to agree with her from both sides.

613

Fri, Nov 26 2004, 11:03 am

okay, frelich, here's a non-lubavitcher's response:
I assume the reason why most of us (non-lub.) don't quote our rebbeim is because we don't share one unifying rebbe as you do. if I want to post a psak that I've personally gotten, I'll say "my rav" (I usually won't say his name to protect my anonymity). also the poskim that we use don't have works written like the Lub. Rebbe does. I hear from all of you how you read his sichos... we don't have things like that to quote from. When we have shailos, we ask our own local orthodox rabbi. does that make any sense?
as for stories, my dh and I read tons of stories in biographies about gedolim/tzaddikim, but those individuals are not OUR personal poskim. maybe our poskim follow their psaks, but we don't have a "relationship" with those gedolim.
I think it's pretty cool that all of lubavitchers follow one "posek." amongst litvish, there are so many varying opinions on EVERYTHING!

Rochel Leah

Fri, Nov 26 2004, 11:42 am

0613, I just want to clarify something, the Lubav REbbe was not a poisiok, Labavavitchers hold differently on things like the litvish do, though the Lubav Rebbe is there as a "hashkafah" poisik...if I am putting that right.He is our guide mentor, father etc...but there were times when people would ask the REbbe shailos and the REbbe would tell them to ask their Rov.

Any other lubavs on board, if you put this is better terms maybe you could explain better

Tue, Nov 30 2004, 10:23 am

I'm not lubavitch either and I opened a topic about if you guys believe that the lubavitch rebbe is still alive, I was only curious, but you guys all got offended and asked Yael to lock that forum. I was only curious not fighting, but obviously all the lubabs on this site realized its something they have to believe in even if they dont, so they didnt want to talk about it. (at least thats what I understood from the fact that it was locked)

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Nov 30 2004, 10:27 am

I asked Yael to lock that forum.

I am not lubavich.

I did it as amoher b/c I didn't want to add a personal touch to the friction.

I just felt that if would not be apropriate to bring a topick wich will most definitely divide us into 2 camps - he's alive, he's dead.

Let's not start it again!!!

If you really want to know, pm lubaviches and figure it out 1on1.

gryp

Tue, Nov 30 2004, 3:14 pm

cy wrote:

but obviously all the lubabs on this site realized its something they have to believe in even if they dont, so they didnt want to talk about it.

what does that mean? we all have to believe in something even if we dont?

please explain, I am baffled.

Tefila

Tue, Nov 30 2004, 5:15 pm

Quote:

but obviously all the lubabs on this site realized its something they have to believe in even if they dont,

cy I don't understand, or atleast am hoping I don't understand your uh... comment? Please clarify without generalizing, thanks

sarahd

Wed, Dec 01 2004, 7:25 am

freilich wrote:

Quote:

but obviously all the lubabs on this site realized its something they have to believe in even if they dont,

cy I don't understand, or atleast am hoping I don't understand your uh... comment? Please clarify without generalizing, thanks

She probably means that people feel intimidated into accepting that the Rebbe is/was/will be Moshiach and feel they can't publicly say they don't believe in this. I don't know if that's true or not; I would think that it's more likely that - among non-Lubavitchers, anyhow - Lubavitchers feel intimidated into denying their belief in the Rebbe as Moshiach. But maybe within Lubavitch it's the other way round. Whatever. At the risk of possibly offending someone, may I respectfully suggest that we drop this sort of theology discussion?

amother

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 11:00 am

That topic should have been left alone. I think it was one of the best topics to have been on this board. By not dicussing it, it shows how very divided the Lubavitchs are. I think that these boards are mostly Lubavitch opinions, thats because a Lubavitcher keeps posting her opinions everywhere disregarding that non-Lubavitchers are also on this board.

miriam

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 11:12 am

I am glad that you are brining this issue up, amother. We should all be considerate of everyone. We talked in another thread about being sensitive to people. Here is another place we need to work hard to think before we speak/type. As a group, we have to work harder in not getting into so MANY fights on the discussion board. If someone has issues with another member, remember, you can always pm them.

gryp

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 12:22 pm

amother wrote:

sorry to be so blunt, but amother: this is absolute nonsense.
"that topic should have been left alone?" are you interested in an answer as to what Lubavitchers believe? there are true informed answers if you are interested. but it seems to me no one really cares that much to discuss the topic so it was locked.

"one of the best topics?" is this what this forum is for? to discuss lubavitch issues? and then you contradict yourself and say when there are Lubavitcher topics discussed, it disregards those who are not Lubavitch. so which way is it? would you rather have Lubavitch topics or not?

"by not discussing it it shows how very divided the Lubavitchers are?" what makes you think that? if we b'achdus agree to avoid a certain issue and b'achdus continue on with the rest of the forum, I actually think it shows how b'achdus we really are!

it seems to me that you are very misinformed.

amother

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 1:09 pm

Lubavitchers don't want to discuss it because they know that they will have such varying views about it. There was achdus about the fact that they didn't want to "air dirty laundry". As Lubavitchers don't you want to bring Moshiach. Talking about Moshiach is very essential. Talking about whether the Lubavitcher Rebbe is Moshiach is essential to all Lubavitchers. Also isn't one of the major divisions there really that people do or don't want it publisized. Since many non-Lubavitchers know about the division within Lubavitch, I think it would have been a great thread. It may have brought more clarification to those people.

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 2:48 pm

I was actually innocently asking, as I dont have much contact with lubabs, I dont live in an area with any, and I have no freinds that are. I was just curious if most people believe it or not, as I was told that the major reason that there are people against lubavitch is really only because they believe the rebbe is moshiach and that he is still alive. Can any of the lubabs on this site explain to me how he can still be alive, I'm a little confused by that.

Tefila

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 3:22 pm

A Tzadik may pass away in a physical sense since to some extent he is still ruled by Teva-nature but in a spritual sense he has not passed away Exclamation

We see this by how the Lubavitcher Rebbe's teachings are implemented and spread to all 4 corners of the world and how his chassidim still hold on dearly to him... So in that sense he is still very much alive, etc look at thread on Igros.
We sing the song Dovid melech Yisroel Chai vekayom - Dovid King of Yisroel is alive 'forever'. We know physically he passed away but his spiritual passing will never ever occur! So yes... We Want Moshiach Now
where, we can have our Rebbe, my child Crying

and everyone back... physically with us!!!!!! Then the world who has been saying oy, to so much suffering will turn around and say aah :!:And if Klozenber, Belz etc feel their Rebbe is Moshiach kol Hakovod to them too... and if I feel that my Rebbe is Moshiach , what is wrong with that Each yid to their own and noone, but noone can slam someone elses belief... especially if it's Torah
cy, I hope I sort've answered you! One question though,
Where you are there are no Chabad Shluchim or chabadniks at all???

Last edited by Tefila on Fri, Dec 03 2004, 2:39 am; edited 2 times in total

Ozmom

Thu, Dec 02 2004, 10:48 pm

To add to what Freilich said the problem is not that we disagree with each other but that the issue isn't understood correctly.

example:
My brother when asked "are you a Meshichist?" answers with "Define meshichist"