Satmar protest against Israel/Netanyahu's speech

leah233

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 2:13 pm

Although I have come to agree with the general Satmar analysis of secular Zionism and related issues after the Yeshiva Bochrim draft law was passed, I'm baffled as to what anyone thinks they will accomplish with this protest. (My husband did attend the protest in Manhattan last summer over drafting Yeshiva Bochrim)Netanyahu isn't claiming to be speaking for all Jews but rather address a threat he feels his country faces. Whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant, what is the protest about? Ironically it sounds like the secular Jewish leaders doing nothing during the holocaust and then telling the Vaad Hatzalah that it is "hasgoros bumos" to publicly fight Roosevelt and co about saving Yiden

On two related notes(1) Hisgarus Bumos also applies to the secular Zionist government.(2)Asking someone why they are on the internet is just shouting them down rather then being open minded to their point

gp2.0

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:57 pm

What the Satmar rebbe wanted is history. For what it's worth, I agree with his philosophy that founding a Jewish state was a minefield to start with.

But it's done now. It's over. People who can still "protest" must be wildly ignorant because they must not realize the ramifications of a lawless Israel. Again, what exactly are they protesting? Do they want everyone to die?

What is it they are saying? I guess they're just living in a state of being where everything is mutually exclusive, so "no zionist government" does not logically follow with "no Jews left alive in Israel." They think the Jews in Israel will go back to some kind of idyllic lifestyle the way it was in the 1800s. (The shining past where everything was perfect. Ha. Ha.) Nowadays, in 2015, in the current political state of being, to say that you are a Jew who does not support Israel is like saying you are a Jew who supports Palestine cleansed of Jews. I'm sorry, but that's what they're saying, and they're literally too ignorant to understand that they're saying this.

Mevater

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:01 pm

leah233 wrote:

Asking someone why they are on the internet is just shouting them down rather then being open minded to their point

It was moi, and Im open minded to their point, but I believe that in the hearts and minds of the Rabbonim I respect, even though I cant prove theyre the most G-dly Rabbonim of all, I dont think they think the Geulah will come any faster if we wouldnt have Jews (even secular Jews) governing Israel and living in Israel. Were not sure of anything. We sure didnt get saved throughout history, way before Israel existed.

There was and is always something to blame all mass murder of Jews on, in the eyes of different Rabbonim, aside from the existence of Israel, such as Secularism, Tznius, Materialism, Machlokes, to name a few, etc. Long list.

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:04 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Pseudo-Satmar Amother* (can you start a rock band, please?), I'm not sure if the usual suspects were at this protest but from what I've heard about other protests, no authentic chossid would want these people speaking for them.

*though Pseudo-Satmar Imamother has a better sound to it, takeh

I'm not sure what you mean by pseudo-Satmar. Or usual suspects.

If you mean NK, they are not the pride and joy of my community, ok? They are the ones we do Rolling Eyes

at. They're the ones who stage protests that get groceries not to carry my Mishpacha (I gave up and got a subscription) or Israeli bamba (b"H that insanity didn't take hold.) And they do not have support amongst the majority. Their wives are looked at with pity...

So please do not lump the Satmar shittah with extremists who join Holocaust denial conferences (even though I read the guy's speech and it countered the denial itself, but the venue, and the legitimacy it granted the Iranian reshaim, was infuriating.) Never mind that some of those guys are simply not mentally stable. If you follow the stories, you would know what I mean.

So what if I break the Satmar stereotype? It's a bit insulting to call me pseudo Satmar. I'm Satmar, proud of my tznius (oxymoron lol) and the shittah, yet doing my own thing in areas I feel I can or should (like Imamother and Mishpacha).

So on the other hand, why blend NK and Satmar in one big mishmash?

If life teaches anyone anything it's that people are way more complex than we think at first, and no one fits neatly into specific boxes and labels.

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:10 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Apologies for calling you Psuedo Satmar. Totally uncalled for. embarrassed

Lol. All good.

It does have a catchy sound to it, grada.

I think I will start a band. I'll call it the Pseudo Satmar Psychedellic Psychos...

But first I need to learn to carry a tune or play an instrument.

Whoever said we Satmar ladies have no sense of humor? LOL

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:23 pm

[quote="gp2.0" Nowadays, in 2015, in the current political state of being, to say that you are a Jew who does not support Israel is like saying you are a Jew who supports Palestine cleansed of Jews. I'm sorry, but that's what they're saying, and they're literally too ignorant to understand that they're saying this.[/quote]

Saying I do not support the state of isreal doesn't automatically mean I support Palestine.

Maya

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

So what if I break the Satmar stereotype? It's a bit insulting to call me pseudo Satmar. I'm Satmar, proud of my tznius (oxymoron lol) and the shittah, yet doing my own thing in areas I feel I can or should (like Imamother and Mishpacha).

So on the other hand, why blend NK and Satmar in one big mishmash?

If life teaches anyone anything it's that people are way more complex than we think at first, and no one fits neatly into specific boxes and labels.

I wonder if you extend the same courtesy to those who consider themselves Satmar yet dress differently than Satmar demands, or are Zionistic while keeping the rest of Satmar ideology.

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:27 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I've discussed this with my elders, and all they do is sigh that there is no simple derech hateva solution.

The main goal for Satmar is not to implement pro or anti Israel policy or to bring about its political dissolution. You will never see them lobbying against money for Israeli defense or anything like that.

The point is one of clarification and hashkafa: ein lanu chelek bezeh - and that Judaism does not equal Zionism.

And that someone has to be the conscience of Torah true Judaism, especially those that only reluctantly, post facto, are on the "side" of zionism, and remind all of us, over and over, that the status quo is tragic on a spiritual level, what with incitement of (preexisting) Arab hatred and the open kefirah in the medinah.

Oh, and to tell Mr. Netanyahu, please do not claim to speak on behalf of all of us.

That about sums it up.

gp2.0

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:37 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Nowadays, in 2015, in the current political state of being, to say that you are a Jew who does not support Israel is like saying you are a Jew who supports Palestine cleansed of Jews. I'm sorry, but that's what they're saying, and they're literally too ignorant to understand that they're saying this.

amother wrote:

Saying I do not support the state of isreal doesn't automatically mean I support Palestine.

To say that you do not support the state of Israel is to say you envision something else in its place. What do you envision?

Last edited by gp2.0 on Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:40 pm; edited 2 times in total

sequoia

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:37 pm

amother wrote:

And that someone has to be the conscience of Torah true zionism and remind all of us, over and over, that the status quo is tragic on a spiritual level, what with incitement of (preexisting) Arab hatred and the open kefirah in the medinah.

I don't agree with any of this.

I'm glad Israel is a democracy.

Again, so many assumptions that you believe everyone shares.

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:53 pm

Maya wrote:

I wonder if you extend the same courtesy to those who consider themselves Satmar yet dress differently than Satmar demands, or are Zionistic while keeping the rest of Satmar ideology.

I personally do. (Though I've never heard of anyone refer to a satmar ideology separate from the antizionism aspect, please enlighten me if you know more about this. Satmar was originally not so much a chassidis as it was a shittah. As the Bnei Yoel are quick to point out.)

It bothers me when people are treated with disrespect. It bothers me when people are looked down at for having different opinions.

It bothers me to see this over and over here on imamother.

I am not interested in making anyone see my side, or join protests, or stop visiting the kosel. I just want you to know that we (most of us, at least...) are quite sane, and not as ignorant as you think. We simply see the world differently.

A freilechen Purim, to all of klal yisroel.

Leshana Habah beYerushalayim... the rebuilt one.

gp2.0

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:12 pm

amother wrote:

Um, Moshiach's reign?

Don't you?

I'm not very clear what specific details different people hold about Moshiach, but that he will come we don't doubt.

So I assume you protest the American government as well, and envision Moshiach's reign in its place? I wonder why we don't see these same protestors refusing to accept government funding, in protest? Since that is what they believe?

dancingqueen

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:28 pm

amother wrote:

Right... because understanding and agreeing with the Rebbe's shittah on zionism means I agree with every single thing he wanted... isn't that what is so often decried on this forum, not thinking for yourself? I don't wear a shpitzel, either. Oh, and I've peered into a chimish from time to time, despite the Rebbe's views on the matter. So no, I never said I agreed or followed all his beliefs.

Since the Rebbe's shittah is not halacha, I don't see the problem in taking what I like and leaving the rest. It's called balance.

Sequoia and others, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just want to say that there is a viewpoint behind the protests that is more thought out than some amothers seem to think. Go ahead and support the state of Israel if you wish, I am not asking you to agree that it's existence is a tragedy for Am Yisroel. But please do not equate zionism with Judaism...

Thank you. I shall now get off my soapbox and attend to the ribbons and cellophane I didn't get to finish yesterday...

Sorry but my jaw just dropped. Satmar as a community views the fact that Jews have a sovereign land in Israel as a tragedy for am yisrael?? After the holocaust, inquisitions, pogroms etc, that is a tragedy?

Do any satmar people live in Israel or visit? And you were saying, they won't go to the kotel?

Maya

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:41 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

You didn't know all that?