Satmar protest against Israel/Netanyahu's speech

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 8:53 pm

Nobody said that they did wrong by going to war the past summer. We all prayed for Hashem to watch over them and he shld bring moshiach without losing yidish lives.
Remember hearing that yrs ago every time someone came to tell the Rebbi that a soldier was killed he gave a sigh and cried for another Jewish soul that was lost.

On a different note, as a kid we never spoke abt Israel. The past few yrs with all the wars going on and reading the news and davening for the IDF and being happy that Hamas is losing my father said, this is the reason we shldnt follow the news closely. We shldnt be celebrating their victories. We need to daven and wait for the right moment. Part of the reason the rebbe didn't encourage ppl to go live there cuz he said there will come a day that it will be very hard to be an ehrliche yid there. And all rabbanim agree to it today. And say that he was right. That he had a vision that many didn't have.

And btw he never referred to any yid with the words ymsh. And he had respect for all the rabbanim from the agudah even tho he had a difference of opinion. I was never educated abt Zionism since we don't have close relatives there and it never pertained to us. Since I have my own boys and they have questions I do try to educate myself so I shld be able to correct them when they get wrong information from other boys.

sourstix

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 8:57 pm

[quote="gp2.0"]I don't understand what the Satmar protestors are doing anymore at this point. Do they realize that If they got their wish and we all woke up tomorrow and there was no more Israel, no more Jewish government, just a bunch of Jewish people living in the midst of lawless countries who hate them - don't they realize there would be mass genocide c'v? How can they be so stupid? Don't they realize all the Jews in Israel would die? At this point, having an Israeli Jewish government goes beyond wanting a zionistic state - it is pikuach nefesh for every Jewish person in eretz yisroel. Do they really not realize this???[/quote]

I wont answer this cause there isnt one. I will just say one thing that the satmar rebbe r'yoel ztl' and I am not satmar and by far not, I do agree and all gedolim agree that having a jewish government is against the torah and that remains till mashiach arrives. which means we are doing something against the torah. when something is done against the torah it has no strength, and thats what I am seeing. what they beleive is that since we are doing stuff against the torah we need to do teshuva and getting rid of the medina is it. for example if you turn on a light on shabbos how do we fix it? do teshuva, learn the halachos so you would remember. here too you did an aveira now do teshuva and the rally is to tell them they are doing something wrong do teshuva. getting rid of the medina isnt an option now so thats why I say there isnt an answer. we are stuck whatever we do we will pay the price.

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 8:58 pm

amother wrote:

sounds like the current rebbe is having trouble being an ehrliche yid even outside of EY.

in my eyes, the most secular IDF soldier giving up three+ years of his life and laying his life on the line, risking death, in order to stand by and protect his jewish bretheren is more an "ehrliche yid" than a rebbe in america that sides against israel.

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 8:59 pm

amother wrote:

APMK the driver had a dream the night before from his mother telling him not to leave without the rebbe.

I have no idea if this is true or not bc im not sure how many people would just do something based on a dream. But even if it was true, the rebbe could have used it to his advantage and negotiated that more people, even if only women and children, be allowed to board the train. He could have totally saved dozens or even hundreds of people in the process but chose not to ultimately abandoning his followers and leaving with what he perceived to be the enemy (aka zionist). Is this what you look for in a leader?

Maya

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:02 pm

amother wrote:

What makes u doubt it? It wldve been very easy to verify it 70 yrs ago thru the other ppl on the train or by asking hthe driver directly.

The fact is that they paid their way onto the train. The dream story is to cover up the fact that the rebbe enlisted the help of Zionists for his rescue, especially after he cautioned others against leaving.

This is all well documented. I suggest you do your research if you want more information.

Barbara

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:02 pm

amother wrote:

What makes u doubt it? It wldve been very easy to verify it 70 yrs ago thru the other ppl on the train or by asking hthe driver directly.

So you seriously believe that the Nazis released a Jew in 1943 or 1944 because he happened to be in a certain car, and the driver had a dream?

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:05 pm

I haven't posted in some time (pseudo satmar amother here).

This thread turned ugly a little while ago.

So long, ladies.

It was nice while it lasted, treating each other like mentshen and actually listening to each other.

If you have a problem with Satmar villifying other Jews and destroying achdus, maybe it's time for some posters to do a cheshbon hanefesh if they are perhaps guilty of the same.

And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:07 pm

black sheep wrote:

I'm not in shamayim so I can't answer if those IDF are ehrlicher. I believe they'll get schar for saving ppl's lives but do I know if joining the army is a mitzvah?? I know that it is just the opposite. It is very confusing to me as well. Like the other poster said there is no answer at this point. The damage was done! But I still believe that we need to turn to Hashem, do teshuvah, and increase torah learning for is to be zocheh to the geulah.

sourstix

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:09 pm

[quote="Mevater"]Does anyone really think in their heart of hearts that the Satmar etc who protested Netanyahu's speech and the existence of Israel, dressed so weirdly in the eyes of mainstream America, most can barely communicate in English, looked like anything but insane individuals, no matter their message? They're just another reason to hate and mock Jews. Also, does anyone really think that all the Israel haters who protested, now have fondness for any Jews, even those who protested with them?

Heeeeeee heeeee. C'mon.[/quote]

let me see what code of dress are you talking about?, the pancake hats? thats their levush. why are you mocking someones levush? you think its weird? is that nice to say on a public forum? is that how you talki about other jews you dont know much about? btw mainstream america has seen a chasidish guy so what are you talking about? I live in the heart of usa and I see chasidish pp all over. I never saw a non jew bat an eyelash, (oh if they misbehave its a diff story). on someone acting respectful. and what makes you think they can barely speak english? I am horrified that another fellow jew talks this way about another jew. its sounds antisemitic.

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:10 pm

amother wrote:

are you suggesting that there are members here on imamother who are part of a group who publicly protest and vilify Satmar? are you suggesting that we should do a cheshbon hanefesh to see if we are also siding with enemies of the jews who publicly proclaim that "if all the jews would gather in israel, it would save us the trouble of hunting them down all over the world (to kill them)?" are you suggesting that we are guilty of doing the same to satmar? are you suggesting that disagreeing with someone is similiar to standing in unity with the enemies of your brothers who are actively doing everything they can to commit mass genocide against them and you?

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:11 pm

sourstix wrote:

I wont answer this cause there isnt one. I will just say one thing that the satmar rebbe r'yoel ztl' and I am not satmar and by far not, I do agree and all gedolim agree that having a jewish government is against the torah and that remains till mashiach arrives. which means we are doing something against the torah. when something is done against the torah it has no strength, and thats what I am seeing. what they beleive is that since we are doing stuff against the torah we need to do teshuva and getting rid of the medina is it. for example if you turn on a light on shabbos how do we fix it? do teshuva, learn the halachos so you would remember. here too you did an aveira now do teshuva and the rally is to tell them they are doing something wrong do teshuva. getting rid of the medina isnt an option now so thats why I say there isnt an answer. we are stuck whatever we do we will pay the price.

Kirays Yoel is its own city and has their own satmar mayor, etc. They vote in block so every govt official will do what they want and give them anything they ask for. I was once told by a politician that if a politician goes against satmar then said politician can kiss his or her career goodbye. So Kiryas Yoel essentially has their own form of govt, is that against the torah or is it only in Israel that one is not allowed a jewish govt?

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:19 pm

amother wrote:

if you turn to Hashem to daven while standing on the blood of your brothers, you will not be zocheh to the geulah.

and I am very clear: every man and woman who serves in the IDF is an "ehrliche yid." true, not all of them are shomer mitzvos, but there are many ways to be koneh olam haba, and as you said, we don't need to judge their righteousness we can leave that to Hashem. but there is one certain way to lose olam haba and ehrliche yid status in this world: proclaim your allegiance with the enemies of Israel. declare that you don't support your brother's right to live.

yes it is a mitzvah to join the IDF. although, for most of those in the IDF, it isn't done out of doing a mitzvah but rather because there is no other choice.

I wonder how the rebbe would react if he was faced personally with the same choice. if terrorists surrounded HIS neigborhood and threatened to kill them all, including him. would he still say his only hope is to pray? that it is assur to fight? would he send busloads of men and children to protest his right to live in his own home?

Last edited by black sheep on Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:19 pm

Barbara wrote:

So you seriously believe that the Nazis released a Jew in 1943 or 1944 because he happened to be in a certain car, and the driver had a dream?

I gotta check out the facts before answering. But I remember that it was a full trainload of Jews on that train. Correct me if I'm wrong.

sourstix

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:21 pm

to amother above I am not satmar I therefore dont have an answer to that. but common the shita he had was acknowledged by all and is still acknowledged by all. israelis take money from the government cause they cant survive without it. but they still agree with the shita. now I am not into whats going on in kiryas yoel. but I do think reb yoel was right. other sins that satmar does. well whats the point we all know about them, so many others commit crimes that doesnt mean the rebbe didnt have the shita right. he was revered by everyone. everyone had respect for him. its just so sad that his pp and those noisemakers took to the extreme. thats not what chasidus is and not yiddishkeit. we all know that. its a corrupt world like they say 'vesigoyisht zich yidisht zich'. the goyishkiet seeps into am yisroel. and we need to kling to the truth. if we seek the truth we will find it.