Need Chizuk | Imamother

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 26 2014, 7:36 pm

amother wrote:

It is a Bais Yaakov, but like all schools there are different crowds. That is my concern, that she has made friends with the wrong girls. But it's not so simple to switch her now. The hanhalah is aware of my concerns though, and seems supportive. They don't want these things going on in their school either.

I hope that it becomes clear that it's more than "seems" and that the partnership continues!

amother

Wed, Nov 26 2014, 7:39 pm

greenfire wrote:

the minute you put up a fight is when the barrier goes up and rebellion sets in ...

be there for her - accepting of her changes - unconditionally ... she will in turn learn to make good choices - even if it means learning vicariously through her mistakes ... this is how one grows & grows up

good luck !!! Hug

That is EXACTLY what I am trying to avoid. To simply tell her "No" or worse, tell her "Tomorrow you are going to x school," I fear is a recipe for disaster. Right now she is still accepting of what we tell her and in general a great kid.

Chayalle

Wed, Nov 26 2014, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

If she is gravitating towards a certain crowd, there must be a reason for it. They have something to offer her, or the crowd you might have preferred is lacking something - she either isn't interested or welcome there.

Sometimes exploring the dynamics can help you understand your DD and her needs.

spikta

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 12:28 am

A few more ideas -
The wizard of Oz and it's many sequels. I loved those books when I was a bit younger- around age 10-11, but it's worth a try, there are more than a dozen. The character development isn't amazing, L. Frank Baum is not geat at building complex personalities and motives. I just loved the fantastical and imaginitive worlds and creatures.
Oh also the Doctor Doolitle series. Lots of adventure and imagination, good for animal lovers.

Both of these series are theoretically for kids, so she might be too old for them. I wouldn't start with them since she might think you're babying her. But I did like them into teen-hood (though maybe because I started reading them when I was younger).
Both are totally clean.
If you read aloud to kids of different ages Dr. Doolittle is great for that.

And I second Narnia. The christian symbolism totally flew over my head, even as an adult. I totally wouldn't worry about that.

Oh and how could I forget the obvious? Tolkein - The Hobbit, if she hasn't read that yet. I don't recall any romance there (there are barely any female characters...), though it's been 16 years so I'm sure other Imamothers remember the book better than me. I didn't manage to slog through the whole Lord of the Rings trilogy, so I can't tell you how clean it is (from what I saw it was). If she likes The Hobbit then you should look into it.

Generally I think you want to be looking for older books, at least 30-40 years old. Those that persevered have stood the test of time, and they're much less explicit than what is written today.

Could you tell me a bit more about what your requirements are? Maybe give a couple of examples of books you didn't approve? We'll be able to give you better recommendations that way.

Heyaaa

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 2:45 am

amother wrote:

If these are the girls she's gravitating towards then she's going to gravitate towards girls like them wherever she is.

I don't know if this makes sense but maybe ask her if she's doing her thing because she's mad at someone (including you) or if this is entirely to prove her independence.

Also my favorite book series as a teen was Artemis Fowl. I think they were all totally clean besides he might've liked a girl in the fourth one, but not enough for it to be romantic or inappropriate.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:27 am

spikta wrote:

OP: She's read most of these by now. She's an avid reader and read the Wizard of Oz series years ago. I would much prefer older books, but that's not what she wants.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:29 am

Heyaaa wrote:

OP: I think it's totally about independence. She does think I baby her but it's arisen from her interaction with these girls, I am afraid they are telling her her parents must not trust her if they don't let her do x, y and z. But telling her "You can't be friends with these girls" is clearly not a tactic.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

OP: A good friend of hers is friends with all these girls and she just became part of the group.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:31 am

chani8 wrote:

On one hand, you're afraid that if you allow her freedom, she'll make bad choices, and it'll be all your fault.

And if you try to control her, she'll rebel, and it'll be all your fault.

OP: Chani8, you hit the nail on the head. I'm second-guessing everything I've done since she was born, while knowing full well that she is her own person and every family has their challenges. Logically I know this, but emotionally I am a mess. I have absolutely no idea where the line is between enforcing our family values and allowing her the freedom to make her own decisions.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 2:23 pm

amother wrote:

- +I totally feel you. I am in the exact same situation as you. My daughter is 13 and all she wants is to have electronic devices, listen to secular music and watch tv shows and all kinds of movies. I don't have tv or allow secular music at all in my home. Internet and digital games are strictly limited, censored and timed. She tends to find and gravitate towards friends who do have those.
I don"t know if I exactly what to do, but I try to explain her what the problem with secular music is and the wrong message it in sends to girls hopefully one day she will internalize my message. I am planning to get her a digital music player and download all the Maccabeats songs and videos. They sing secular tunes but the words and images are kosher. I started letting her text her friend through my cellphone where I can check the history and keep tabs on her (even if messages are erased they can be retrieved). I also found a movie rating site www.kids-in-mind.com that gives an in-depth movie review and I let her see why I don't allow most Movies. I also try to find informational shows if anyone knows of any, please let me know.

From my perspective I see her as a teenage who wants to claim independence and wants me as the mother to understand her but at the same time still needs me to set boundaries even while testing me with pushing the boundaries.
I can also use advice on this subject. Just know that you are not alone.

OP: Would you share with me exactly how you explain what's wrong with secular music? I am trying but it's not penetrating.

Heyaaa

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 3:28 pm

amother wrote:

OP: Would you share with me exactly how you explain what's wrong with secular music? I am trying but it's not penetrating.

She knows why you thinks it's inappropriate. A lot of it is vulgar and defames women. Also if you want to know about the spiritual aspect of music, when a person writes music, they put their soul into the music and when you listen to the music, that soul enters inside your soul. So when you listen to a song that was written by a prust non Jew lowlife, a piece of that persons soul enters you. Although if a Jewish person wrote a song for reasons of gayva, you don't gain all that much;)

You probably should try to validate her appreciation for the music though. Professional song artists go to school for a few years to learn the science of music to know how to write songs that will be catchy and addictive. They know how to write a song that will get your body moving the right way and get you to feel the right feelings. When done properly, beats can actually have the physical effects of a drug. I think you should acknowledge that the music is catchy instead of what my parents/teachers would tell me 'all secular music sounds the same and only Jewish music is real'

Also if you're looking for a book series to give her, like I mentioned, Artemis fowl is actually addictive and it's cleaner than Harry potter.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 7:18 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

OP: This is very helpful re: music - thank you.
I'm pretty sure she read Artemis Fowl but I will double-check. Ideally we didn't want any of it, but it's not realistic. Kids grow up reading secular books in school for book reports, etc. in Bais Yaakov, it's very hard to all of a sudden tell them you can't read anything anymore.

amother

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 12:29 pm

daisy wrote:

There was an Adviceline discussion about this subject in Family First magazine recently (I think over the Yomim Tovim). Maybe someone can point you towards the issue/article.

OP: I looked in some recent Family First magazines and I don't see any Adviceline conversations at all - did they discontinue it? Does anyone have any idea where I can find this particular article?

amother

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 11:20 am

amother wrote:

OP: Hi again - would really appreciate any anecdotes from people who have been through this and come through with fine, ehrliche children. (No horror stories please. I'm a wreck as it is. )

One of my siblings went thru a rebellious, independant stage as a teen...and today is happily married, with a wonderful DH and five normal BY-type angelic kids.

She never made any really bad choices as a teen....but her crowd was on the wild side, and she dressed, read, hung out, etc....climbed out the window to join her friends.

She always says that when she meets hs teachers, they look at her and give a double-take. They are likely surprised that she settled down and turned out so well. Her point there being that hs teachers tend to be judgemental.