When I asked for Shabbos hospitality, told "stay in hot

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chocolate moose

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:03 pm

I hate to relive this episode in my personal history, but I've had that. At least you know before; it's not Friday afternoon at 3 PM that he is telling you this.

It was HORRIBLE !!!!

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:03 pm

Inspired wrote:

Honestly, it would never occur to me to call up strangers to host me so I can vacation.

Ditto. But if I wanted to do it, I would search the FB group of the kehila and contact the most social people and see from there LOL

Or check if they have someone on sawyouonshabbes

mimimom

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:08 pm

Very disheartening. I'm so sorry! I've been set up several times by calling the Agudah national office; once in Philadephia and once in San Jose. I was at each for several days while attending conferences, and they were the MOST wonderful people ever! The both treated me like I was a cousin or something. The families were both very active in the Agudah--maybe that's the ticket? Anyway, whatever the reason, seems the Rabbi could use some work on his interpersonal skills. Truthfully, I expect that kind of treatment in Brooklyn--but not OOT!! (I live in Brooklyn, btw)

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:15 pm

I just want to add - no offense - I definitely didn't want to talk to anyone after I had my wisdom teeth pulled! So I can understand why he might be grumpy - but still no excuse to be rude Smile

waterbottle

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:18 pm

1. I do not think its that weird. Put yourself in the position of the shul. Let's assume that every week in the summer there are numerous families on vacation. Let's say the shul receives a call from 3 families one week asking for hospitality. Its possible that not everyone living in such a place has a guest house or extra rooms to house families. Also, if such a shul were to have frequent guests it would become a burden on the community.

2. I am very familiar with a certain community in which one summer week there were two or three large families (6 to 7 people) that asked for hospitality during the same week. Now, try not to be selfish here but that is a lot of people to add to someone's house, people they do not even know! The shul was nice enough to find shabbos meals for these people, but they did stay in nearby hotels.

3. From the shul members' perspective, if you are affluent enough to afford a vacation, you are affluent enough to afford a hotel for shabbos! It is completely inappropriate to go on vacation and expect the local community to take the burden of hosting frum vacationers. I'm sure you are well aware of how expensive it is to make shabbos, well imagine how much more the food costs in these out of town places...

Ima2NYM_LTR

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:20 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

I just want to add - no offense - I definitely didn't want to talk to anyone after I had my wisdom teeth pulled! So I can understand why he might be grumpy - but still no excuse to be rude Smile

agreed- but I didnt know today was 'wisdom teeth pulling day', nor did I force him to answer the phone. in fact when he told me he just had them pulled, I apologized for bothering him and he said that it was his choice to answer the phone

And for the record- I had emailed him about another issue a couple of weeks ago and never heard back from him

BeershevaBubby

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:28 pm

For all those saying 'stay in a hotel for Shabbat', IMO asking for hospitality is more about wanting to spend Shabbat in a Shabbasdik atmosphere, having a Minyan, etc. than being able to afford a hotel for a weekend.

when we were vacationing at my (non-frum) in laws one summer in CT, we could have stayed at their house over Shabbat. But it meant my husband wouldn't have had a Minyan and we would have been in a house that wouldn't be Shomer Shabbat.

Personally, we had a better time staying with the community we got in touch with (IIRC it was West Hartford, CT) who were very welcoming.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:32 pm

waterbottle wrote:

1. In our community, if someone needs hospitality, it is provided- Shabbos or weekday. We have put travelers up before- even those with demanding and special last minute needs. While I dont doubt that many from Jews travel to Niagara Falls, I do doubt a large number chose to stay in Buffalo over Shabbos while vacationing

2. As I told the Rabbi, we are a family of 4, with our own bedding and willing to pay for food. So all we need is a patch of floor (even a basement) and a place at a shabbos table we would help pay for.

3. We are not affluent. DH lost his job after this trip was planned, and I am a SAHM. In fact, one of the reasons we switched to the American side of the Falls (as opposed to the Canadian side) is because the campsite would cost $200 less if we stayed on the American side. It would cost us more for just 2 nites at a hotel then for the 5 nites we are camping. ---and as I said WE OFFERED TO PAY (which is more than any of our guests have ever done for us)

Remember- we werent EXPECTING that it work out- we were trying to see if it might work out. We werent expecting to be catered to, or put up for free. We were asking if there might be a possibility and I was shut out.

OTOH, Just got in touch with the local Chabad Rabbi (who said he isnt local anymore) and he apologized and told me he cannot think of anyone who can host us, but he wishes us luck- now isnt that much more polite???

Tamiri

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:33 pm

Inspired wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

I think it might be a little presumptuous to expect a Rabbi to set you up with Shabbos meals. Rabbis are busy, you can't expect him to also take time to find shabbos hospitality for you. Also, he doesn't know you and might feel strange calling up members of his congregation to host people that he can't vouch for.

ITA 100%.

Also as it seems the town is near a popular vacation area they probably get multiple calls like this every week.

Who says your vacation falls into the geder of hachnasas orchim? How many of these orchim is this community obligated to host every week?

Honestly, it would never occur to me to call up strangers to host me so I can vacation.

This is my thought as well. I think that if it's one person, out of town for a job, or a couple who must be in a city for some reason - you can "ask for" but not "expect" hospitality. If you are on vacation and just don't feel like making Shabbat, that means you are putting someone else out: a keh family with children. That's not easy for or wanted by everyone. This whole hospitality thing may not be across the board in frum communities. But I MUST mention Toronto as a place where hachnassat orchim means a lot. DH and I had come to Toronto, on our way to our new home in the U.S. We took the roundabout way from NY. We had just arrived from Israel. We made motel reservations and went out to buy ready-made food for Shabbat. In line at the kosher store, someone asked us who we were and what the story was. That person made a phone call to the hospitality committee. To make a long story short, we were invited (we had a 2 yo at the time) to total strangers, for Shabbat. They weren't of our ilk at all, them being Chareidi and we MO but they graciously allowed us to use their basement guest room and bathroom. They fed us but didn't eat the prepared food we had bought. They sent us on our way on Sunday morning with food. Totally out of the blue. THAT was remarkable to us. We hadn't even thought such a thing existed.
So, maybe go to Toronto? LOL

Tamiri

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:37 pm

Wow, and you will be in the same area we were in!

Raisin

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:42 pm

see, tamiri, but if that same family was called every week asking to host 2 or 3 families they would also start to say no to some of them.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:42 pm

Just a thought!

Maybe it's worthwhile to contact the local university (I know of at least SUNY BUFFALO) and ask if they have rooms for rent.

Most universities and colleges rent out dorm rooms to travellers in the summer months. You will have a shared bathroom, but more than likely it will be much cheaper than a hotel room. Start with the university "visitor's center" or PR or Housing Office.

And there is more than likely takeout in the area.

Hatzlacha!

Tamiri

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:44 pm

[quote="Raisin"]see, tamiri, but if that same family was called every week asking to host 2 or 3 families they would also start to say no to some of them.[/quote]Of course! The thing is, there is (was? it was 23 years ago) a central phone number to call, I guess like a database, and they match up guests with hosts. Mind you, this was on Friday morning - there was no advance notice to speak of.

MamaBear

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:45 pm

I personally would never do what you did. Shabbos hospitality, to me, is for people who are visiting the community perhaps to give a lecture, or are there temporarily for some family reason like illness, or a hospital stay. Or they are trying the community out and want to be set up with a family to get a feel for the place. Or maybe they got stuck at the last minute due to bad weather. I understand that some people do hospitality the way you're seeing it though.

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:46 pm

I really do not think it's fair to ASSUME someone is going to put you up for accomodation. Probably meals, but not everyone has spare space to accomodate a family. It's an extra bonus if you can get invited to meals (less of a strain for a host family). I see absolutely nothing wrong for a rabbi to suggest staying in a hotel. (Of course, I agree there are nicer ways of suggesting this.) What do you think would happen in a very popular tourist destinations--say Venice or Bankgkok--if all yidden expect local rabbis to provide free B&B services? Speaking from my own personal experience, both as guests and hosts on many occasions.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:46 pm

SUNY BUffalo Residence Hall Main Office (716) 645-2171

Or try couchsurfing.com

Peanut2

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:50 pm

When I visited Italy they had the "rules" down pat. They will host you for meals, invite you to shul, but you can't sleep over. It was incredibly nice of the various Italian people in the area, and it does seem like they get more guests than friends there. I mean, everyone wants to visit Italy!

I got yelled at once as well for asking about accommodations for shabbat in Brazil. Really yelled at. We were asked why we're traveling if we don't have money for hotels!? We did, but heard through the grapevine that the community loves to host, and we thought a nice shabbat with a family would be fun. It turned out great, actually, as a random Jewish family invited us over and we adored them! When we went to shul, all their friends were jealous that they had guests and we got massive invites. Amazing community, except for the person who shouted at us. Moral of the story - sometimes people in leadership positions will yell, but they are the weird ones.

My parents live in a very OOT place and have hosted lots of people, some of them quite strange. It's not the end of the world. I'm sure plenty of other people do that.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:57 pm

That's interesting! where in Italy?

Ima2NYM_LTR

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:57 pm

woman from the conservative synagogue just called and offered me her home- even though she and her family will be out of town. We probably wont take it because itd feel odd being in someone house without them and since it is a long walk to the (conservative) shul and no eruv, but it is doable if necessary (food from the local store)

Point being- if a conservative family has such Hachnasat Orchim, why doesnt the frum community?- and this is coming from someone who does host total strangers + kids, overnight and meals.

Inspired

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:21 pm

Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:

Point being- if a conservative family has such Hachnasat Orchim, why doesnt the frum community?- and this is coming from someone who does host total strangers + kids, overnight and meals.

Because its a rarity most likely. The frum community probably gets many such requests this time of year.
As I said above I don't really understand why you would want to make yourself into an orayach for vacation, its not something I would do, and I wouldn't appreciate people doing it to me.
IMO hachnasa orchim is for those who need to be in your town for specific reasons, not including vacation, or those who otherwise need a place to be.
IMO frum communities have plenty of hachnsas orchim, when appropriate. I don't think free vacation accommodations are included in that.

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