When I asked for Shabbos hospitality, told "stay in hot

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:23 am

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

No.

It's more like, "I'm not in the mood to make Shabbos, so maybe I'll go to my in laws for a meal, or I'll make a very simple Shabbos menu."

Where do pple just up and "go away for a weekend" to? Seems like more trouble than it's worth.

WHen you're a BT you don't have inlaws to go to. You have FRIENDS - they become your FFB family.

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:28 am

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

I must have very weird friends... on more than one occasion I've had someone write in their FB or blog 'who wants us for Shabbat?'

I see it too, but still think it's strange to impose on people last minute. Generally, if DH and I go away for a weekend (which is extremely rare and usually due to work travel), it's planned in advance.

It's more comfortable staying home.

I take FULL CREDIT HERE! I am "one of those people" who puts on their FB - Does anyone want us for Shabbos?

I definitely don't want anyone to feel like they nebach have to take us, but if a friend is open to having us, and our kids get along, and they will enjoy the time with us, why not? By simply putting it out there - people can just offer if they want or simply ignore it. Also in reverse, many times I've snagged shabbos guests that way Smile

I *don't* have in-laws to go to, or a sister or brother to go to for shabbos.

So y'all can just blame me okay?

PS I am known as someone who will say "yes" to shabbos guests when called as late as the shabbos siren Smile

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:35 am

aidelmaidel wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

WHen you're a BT you don't have inlaws to go to. You have FRIENDS - they become your FFB family.

Well, I just never go away because I'm not in the mood to make shabbos.

DefyGravity

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:39 am

aidelmaidel wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

WHen you're a BT you don't have inlaws to go to. You have FRIENDS - they become your FFB family.

Please be advised that I have the option, but go rarely (mainly only when invited) because even if I don't feel like cooking, it's easier to stay home and make a simple shabbos than go elsewhere to eat. I'm certainly not a person that goes to her in-laws every week. Maybe every couple months. I'd rather call my neighbor and see if they'd prefer to do potluck. They also like short meals.

You can insert "friends" where I put in-laws.

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:44 am

Inspired wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

When you're a BT you don't have inlaws to go to. You have FRIENDS - they become your FFB family.

Well, I just never go away because I'm not in the mood to make shabbos.

Inspired - I don't know you so forgive me if this sounds harsh. ~~Not everyone has an easy life~~ Some people have very difficult lives - Personally I have four kids, a full-time job, a part-time job, a husband on disability, and both my ex and my husband's ex to deal with. One of my kids is disabled. I'm also active in my community, and of course have to keep everyone fed, clothed, and clean (not to mention the apartment). Most days I just barely scrape by. We don't have the financial ability to go "on vacation" for a week or more at a time. All my vacation time at work is eaten up by Pesach and dr appointments for my disabled child. Every day I take off "for myself" is precious. So yes, on occasion, I might not feel like I can handle making shabbos and I might ask a friend to please have us for shabbos.

We try to go away on the holiday weekends so that I don't have to take off from my job. AT MOST it's 4 times a year.

I understand that perhaps you are a person who is HORRIFIED at the idea of asking someone for shabbos hospitality. But please understand that for some people it's a means of keeping their sanity.

And I bless you that you are never in the position to have to ask anyone for Shabbos hospitality.

zipporah

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:54 am

I also want to clarify that Hachnasas orchim doesn't include friends and family:

Per Rabbi Avraham Sebrow, Five Towns Jewish Times:

"What type of guest actually does qualify for this mitzvah? The Rema (333:1), quoting the Terumas HaDeshen, rules that a real "guest" is someone who comes from out of town and does not have a home in the host's city.

If this mitzvah were strictly limited to hosting out-of-towners who have no place else to eat, it would be rather hard to fulfill the mitzvah on a regular basis. However, I once heard from a rebbi that a college student or yeshiva bachur from out of town who has meals on campus would still qualify as a "guest" for this mitzvah. Though these students have places to eat, they don't have the warmth and atmosphere of a family meal. I asked HaRav Yisrael Belsky, shlita, for his opinion, and he concurred, adding that a lonely individual who is made to feel more at home at your house would also qualify as a guest.

So, to properly fulfill the mitzvah of hachnasas orchim, you must find guests who do not have their own home nearby or for various reasons would be more comfortable in your home than in their own."

Note- the students could have chosen to go to school near family where they could have gone home for Shabbat. They purposefully placed themselves in a situation where they need hospitality, and the additional warmth from a family environment was enough to grant them the halachic status of a guest. This becomes important because hosts can take additional leniences when taking care of a guest's needs.

Just a question- does anybody who thinks it's rude to ask have a halachic basis for that opinion?

edited to fix link

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:00 am

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

When you're a BT you don't have inlaws to go to. You have FRIENDS - they become your FFB family.

Well, I just never go away because I'm not in the mood to make shabbos.

Thanks for making my day. Yeah, that's it, I have an easy life.
I never said I never asked anyone for shabbos hospitality. I said I never did so because I wasn't in the mood to make shabbos or for vacation. Asking because a person lives near the hospital or because your house burnt down is not the same as asking because you want to go away just stam.

Personally I have been in the position to have to get help from people including hospitality because of crises and tragedies. That is why the ability to make shabbos in my own home, usually with guests is very precious to me and I do not just give it up because I'm "not in the mood". That is also why it is hard for me to understand people who want to put themselves in the position to rely on the kindness of others when they have the ability to be the givers or at least just self reliant.

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:12 am

Inspired wrote:

LIKE I SAID AT THE BEGINNING I don't know you or your personal story/history/life. I'm not trying to judge you. All I said was that for me, my life is difficult (for more reasons than listed above). I don't doubt that alot have it harder and alot have it easier. Each has it's own nisayonos.

I would like to think that I'm pretty self-reliant most of the time but I since I occasionally have to ask for the kindness of others that means I'm an imperfect human being.

I GET IT - YOU DON'T like to ask. Read back the thread - you'll see I've said more than once that yes, there are some people who will never want to ask - I'm just not one of them.

zipporah

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:19 am

Barbara wrote:

Am I the only one who sees a huge difference between, on the one hand, calling a family member or a close friend, and saying *I've had a lousy week, can we come to you for Shabbat lunch* (or even can we stay at your place), and approaching a complete stranger and saying *you don't know who we are, but can you put us up for Shabbat*

There is certainly a difference: one is being nice to your loved ones and the other is true hachnasas orchim. The mitzvah of hospitality is specifically regarding someone you don't have a close relationship with. If you haven't hosted a stranger, you haven't fulfilled the mitzvah.

I still have not found a reference saying the guest has to have "a good enough reason." Not liking their reason may be enough to say no, but is it enough not to even ask?

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:23 am

Inspired wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

I think there's a big difference between circumstances causing a family to need Shabbos hospitality, and simply not feeling like making Shabbos.

Yes, I have needed help before with making Shabbos when I was sick, but I would never impose.

And yes, Barbara. I agree, the two scenarios are completely different.

I agree as well.

I don't think I would call up a perfect stranger and ask, "Hey, can we stay by you for shabbos."

I might ask a friend, "Do you know anyone in ______ that might be able to host us for Shabbos on _____?" And then let that friend introduce us.

I might ask a shaliach, "We have to be in your city for _______ on the shabbos of _______. Can you give me some information on kosher food in your city and hotels or places to stay?"

I have no qualms about asking people in my community to have us for shabbos lunch (my kids can't handle going out at night). But we are known in our community to be one of the few families who are "in-town" for the summer and happily have guests.

louche

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:28 am

Barbara wrote:

I'm right behind you, seeing the same thing.
I'm also seeing a big difference between "I was supposed to go home for Shabbat but my flight was cancelled and I'm stranded here till Sunday morning" or "My dh is in the hospital here over Shabbos", and "We're in town for vacation, can someone put us up?"

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:35 am

louche wrote:

Barbara wrote:

If I'm going on vacation - I'm ALWAYS asking WELL in advance - I'm half Yekke. (Insert Favorite joke here: What happens when a Lubavitcher marries a Yekke? A wedding that happens EXACTLY a half an hour late). I HATE last minute things - it's the worst thing about "Jewish Time"! It makes me nuts. (I'm already thinking about Pesach)...

zipporah

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:39 am

DH just reminded me that we did exactly this on our pilot trip. I thought the Carlebach moshav would be a great place to have him experience. I emailed the person who ran the moshav website asking if he knew of someone who could host us. He said he would, no problem. Had a great time, and we still talk occasionally.

I'd like to see a source saying that you shouldn't ask for hospitality. I'm willing to consider this as a viable opinion, but it shouldn't be based on something as vague as "I think that's tacky." This is one of the most important mitzvot on the books - there should be at least minhag hamakom behind saying you shouldn't even ask.

I've finally found something I'm really passionate about, and I didn't even know it til today. LOL

louche

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 8:40 am

YESHASettler wrote:

Haven't you ever had a Thursday or Friday or Sunday where you say 'I'm so not in the mood to make Shabbat, let's go away next weekend'?

No. That's what takeout is for.
Aside from not having the luxury of being able to flit away for the weekend on the spur of the moment (and not for anything would I expect other people to satisfy my whim by hosting me), but if I'm not in the mood to make Shabbos, I'mcertainly not in the mood to pack, travel, dress for dinner, and perform all the social niceties that are part and parcel of being a guest in someone's home.