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amother
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 Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:20 am
| amother Begonia wrote: | To all above: let's support our sisters, the easy answer is go to beis din as the Torah says. You have a Jewish marriage contract that you want to end. Do it the proper Torah way. YOU deserve it. Money and material things aren't worth your fight. There are no winners on divorce but your mental heth is worth much more. I've see
Women who gave in for the sake of Shalom and second marriage was all worth it. Hashem repays many times more. |
If she and her children are left destitute and homeless maybe he's the one who should give in for the sake of shalom. Btw I doubt any sane, normal woman would be interested in marrying a man who chose to force his ex and children to move out of the family house in order to receive her get. Money and material things aren't worth his fight, either.
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WhatFor
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:20 am
| amother Snowflake wrote: | | dunno, my sister was left with the shirt on her back (not even) for the sake of getting a get. |
Yup. Amother Begonia would claim that this is what Halacha "requires". To commit a final act of abuse against women who want to be freed from their abusers. Luckily most of us keep a different religion.
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chestnut
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:31 am
| amother Begonia wrote: | To all above: let's support our sisters, the easy answer is go to beis din as the Torah says. You have a Jewish marriage contract that you want to end. Do it the proper Torah way. YOU deserve it. Money and material things aren't worth your fight. There are no winners on divorce but your mental heth is worth much more. I've see
Women who gave in for the sake of Shalom and second marriage was all worth it. Hashem repays many times more. |
This woman went to BD to a get, just as she was supposed to according to halacha.
Oh, money and material things aren't worth the fight? Did you tell it to this husband or it's only applicable to women?
Let's support our sisters and make sure the abusers don't make them pay tens or hundreds of thousands for the get they rightfully deserve.
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chestnut
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:32 am
| chestnut wrote: | 1. Who decided that she was supposed to move out and not he?
2. He "allowed" her to stay? It was her house as much as his. You clearly don't understand this.
3. Regarding their children, are you saying that he wanted her to move out with the kids, but because she wasn't moving out with them, he was kind enough not to call police "to remove his children without a place to stay"?
Please tell me I misunderstood each point. |
Would love to hear the answers, amother Begonia.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:42 am
| WhatFor wrote: | Your attitude to this is astounding. If a woman agrees to marry a man, and they agree that she'll stay home and raise their children while he earns money, the money is all his? You consider him the "sole" provider? Who's carrying his children for him? Who's birthing them? Who's caring for them every day? Your argument only begins to hold any water if he financially compensated her what you would pay a surrogate to carry each child for you, what you would pay a housekeeper for every year they took care of your house and children - at *her* price. And that's only the beginning.
You put "family" in quotes around family home. I have no clue what kind of normal woman believes that such a home belongs exclusively to the man in a relationship. Thank God I don't know people who talk this way in real life. And imagine the kind of "man" who gives not a whit to forcing his children out of their home. Disgusting.
Did you attend the bet din to know that it was a halachic ruling? Sometimes when a man simply refuses the bet din can encourage a woman to give in simply because her get will make her happier in the long run. My mind is boggled that there's supposedly a frum woman on here who thinks that a housewife who bore and raised a bunch of children for her husband should be forced to give up their shelter in order to get a get. I can't think of anyone who thinks this way other than an abuser or their flying monkeys. |
This!!! Do you also believe while a couple is married, if the husband is the one making the money, the wife has no right to spend any of it? Halacha clearly states he has to provide for her. And she doesn’t have to give all that back when they divorce. It’s hers.
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amother
Sunflower
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 9:44 am
| amother Begonia wrote: | To all above: let's support our sisters, the easy answer is go to beis din as the Torah says. You have a Jewish marriage contract that you want to end. Do it the proper Torah way. YOU deserve it. Money and material things aren't worth your fight. There are no winners on divorce but your mental heth is worth much more. I've see
Women who gave in for the sake of Shalom and second marriage was all worth it. Hashem repays many times more. |
You must be confused. Women do exactly that. It's quite often the man who refuses to abide by the ruling.
Or maybe I am confused. Are you essentially saying that women should just give up everything to the man, even where it's to the childrens detriment, all in the name of 'shalom'? Maybe I'm stupid, so can you explain it a bit better to me?
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Yael
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 9:49 am
I received an email from Ari Satz wanting to respond to the questions in this thread.
———-—
This is Ari Satz, the ‘get refuser’. The admin was nice enough to allow me to write a response and agreed to post it.
There is a vey valid point here. Halachah and Torah law should be followed. My question is, why is it that when a woman absolutely abuses the system and violates halacha and Torah law, they lie and blame the man. I offered the get from the beginning. We agreed on a custody (mutually agreed). I didn’t want my kids to suffer so all I asked is that we put custody behind us and I was going to give the get. I didn’t care about anything else, but my kids. She refused to sign any custody until “I get the money and assets I want and if I don’t get the money and assets I want, I will take you to trial for everything”. She has a rich sister in Israel paying her bills while I had no one helping. There were times I would spend $600/hr ($400 for a lawyer and $200 for my half of the mediator), we would agree on a custody and then I would hear her say ‘oh, I’m not signing’. This went on for over a year and my kids were suffering. I begged every Rabbi, beis din, anyone who would listen, but no one helped me. She sent me a hazmana for the get. I agreed to go to beis din, have them adjudicate the case and give the get. She refused. She used the kids as leverage for money and even made a suggestion that she move with the kids to Israel so she can be closer to her family and I can visit once a month. She had no problem taking my own kids away from me. Finally, the judge was fed up this wasn’t getting done and appoints a guardian to make a recommendation. The recommendation came back as 50/50 custody and she gets her get. I said fine, she refused and wanted trial. I couldn’t afford it and my kids were done. I couldn’t do it to them. I said I would just sign whatever you want, but you’re not getting your get until everything is fixed. I got one day a week and every other weekend. Ironically, after the divorced was finalized, she tried fighting custody again just to hurt me. However, I ended up getting full custody of my oldest son. We were supposed to have a follow up after that, but of course she refused and the judges around here are terrible. She took me to trial for finances. She didn’t care because she wasn’t paying for it. I said I was not going to give the get until everything is changed to follow halacha and Jewish law. She wouldn’t settle until I agreed to go to beis Din for adjudication for the get. Not really knowing there was corrupt beis din’s I picked the worst one – Avi Kahan. The courts forced me to go. If you watched the video, you know he lied. My ex knows it’s a lie, the rabbis know it’s a lie, and ORA knows it’s a lie. They defamed me based on these lies and ORA even protested my parents based on these lies. Now you want the get with my free will??? This must be a joke. I never lied, I never held back the get, I followed Torah law. The only part of Torah law they want to follow is to make sure she gets her get before she remarries. Not sure what the point is? The loshon hara spoken was worse than getting remarried without a get. Now, I am plastered all over the place as a ‘get refuser’ all based on lies. All these rabbis who I begged for help and did nothing are now out there on the other side even though they know the ruling is a lie. Shame. Shame on them and every person who remains silent while a parent lies to hurt the relationship of the other parent with their children. My 8-year-old doesn’t know what it is like to daven in shul with his father because of these lies. People say ‘just give the get and get it over with’. They ask you when you give the get if you are doing it with your free will? I would be lying like them if I said yes. If Hshm seal is emes and we have rabbis, judges, communities, newspapers, etc, all lying, then what do you think is going to happen in this world when people lie? Did you hear about the 13-year-old boy who committed suicide because all he wanted to do was see his father for his bar mitzvah and the mother didn’t let? When are we going to hold mothers accountable for their actions??
Finally, and I am not ashamed to even say it, but there will be no get until everyone who lied comes forward and admits they lied and damages are paid. As a people we should be shaming the liars and violators of halachah and not the innocent people so the innocent children suffer.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:37 pm
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I’m so confused, since when do we have men posting on imamother, even indirectly?
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:42 pm
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Sorry I don’t buy it. I know nothing about this case, I read Ari’s response with an open mind, but those last few lines did it for me. Seriously? Not giving a get until everyone who lied admits they lied? Seems very vindictive.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:01 pm
| amother Petunia wrote: | | Sorry I don’t buy it. I know nothing about this case, I read Ari’s response with an open mind, but those last few lines did it for me. Seriously? Not giving a get until everyone who lied admits they lied? Seems very vindictive. |
Not to mention, if his priority is his innocent children (as he stated) he should do what it takes to protect them and not drag it out until all those unnamed parties apologize and pay damages (which is very unclear who these parties are, how many, and what sort of damages he's talking about). This sounds more about his own interests and getting what he insists on.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:08 pm
| amother Amethyst wrote: | | Not to mention, if his priority is his innocent children (as he stated) he should do what it takes to protect them and not drag it out until all those unnamed parties apologize and pay damages (which is very unclear who these parties are, how many, and what sort of damages he's talking about). This sounds more about his own interests and getting what he insists on. |
Just read it again and I can’t even follow. First he didn’t give a get until custody agreements were finalized, then when they were he wouldn’t give until “everything is according to Jewish law” (what everything? Custody? Money? What Jewish law?), the blamed beis din and court for being corrupt, and now not until everyone apologizes and pays damages.
It just doesn’t add up.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:18 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | I found it fascinating that when get refuser activists get on a case the "victim" (women) is forced to come to being din, which is something many of these women refuse to do when asked by the ex husband. There proper halacha ruling is issued items withheld by the women are returned and things get resolved easily and a get is given.
Example: recently a man who was the sole provider for his family bought a house and paid the mortgage. They separated and the woman refused to leave the "family" home. He kept paying for years and offered a get in exchange for His house back. She refused because she and her kids loved the house it where her kids grew and are growing up. Female activists finally got and screamed... publicly shamed him.... when she finally agreed to go to being din, the woman was ordered to move out and return the home to the halachic rightful owner.... the ex husband. The moment she moved out, she got her get.
Had the husband stopped paying for the home, his credit would be ruined and he would have lost all the money he put in. He had no other way of getting his property back. Thankfully due to these activists, women are forced to abide by Torah law and halachic rulings. |
So you blindly believe the Gett refusers story. I'm so sick reading this. This is the exact story my gett with holder claims. I don't even want to go into details here but it was COMPLETELY upside down untrue. And yes my now xh is a covert narcissistic abuser. And yes he seems to be a saint to everyone outside the household.
I can't believe nine women liked your post which shows that they too believe blindly.
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amother
Hydrangea
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:23 pm
| Yael wrote: | I received an email from Ari Satz wanting to respond to the questions in this thread.
———-—
This is Ari Satz, the ‘get refuser’. The admin was nice enough to allow me to write a response and agreed to post it.
There is a vey valid point here. Halachah and Torah law should be followed. My question is, why is it that when a woman absolutely abuses the system and violates halacha and Torah law, they lie and blame the man. I offered the get from the beginning. We agreed on a custody (mutually agreed). I didn’t want my kids to suffer so all I asked is that we put custody behind us and I was going to give the get. I didn’t care about anything else, but my kids. She refused to sign any custody until “I get the money and assets I want and if I don’t get the money and assets I want, I will take you to trial for everything”. She has a rich sister in Israel paying her bills while I had no one helping. There were times I would spend $600/hr ($400 for a lawyer and $200 for my half of the mediator), we would agree on a custody and then I would hear her say ‘oh, I’m not signing’. This went on for over a year and my kids were suffering. I begged every Rabbi, beis din, anyone who would listen, but no one helped me. She sent me a hazmana for the get. I agreed to go to beis din, have them adjudicate the case and give the get. She refused. She used the kids as leverage for money and even made a suggestion that she move with the kids to Israel so she can be closer to her family and I can visit once a month. She had no problem taking my own kids away from me. Finally, the judge was fed up this wasn’t getting done and appoints a guardian to make a recommendation. The recommendation came back as 50/50 custody and she gets her get. I said fine, she refused and wanted trial. I couldn’t afford it and my kids were done. I couldn’t do it to them. I said I would just sign whatever you want, but you’re not getting your get until everything is fixed. I got one day a week and every other weekend. Ironically, after the divorced was finalized, she tried fighting custody again just to hurt me. However, I ended up getting full custody of my oldest son. We were supposed to have a follow up after that, but of course she refused and the judges around here are terrible. She took me to trial for finances. She didn’t care because she wasn’t paying for it. I said I was not going to give the get until everything is changed to follow halacha and Jewish law. She wouldn’t settle until I agreed to go to beis Din for adjudication for the get. Not really knowing there was corrupt beis din’s I picked the worst one – Avi Kahan. The courts forced me to go. If you watched the video, you know he lied. My ex knows it’s a lie, the rabbis know it’s a lie, and ORA knows it’s a lie. They defamed me based on these lies and ORA even protested my parents based on these lies. Now you want the get with my free will??? This must be a joke. I never lied, I never held back the get, I followed Torah law. The only part of Torah law they want to follow is to make sure she gets her get before she remarries. Not sure what the point is? The loshon hara spoken was worse than getting remarried without a get. Now, I am plastered all over the place as a ‘get refuser’ all based on lies. All these rabbis who I begged for help and did nothing are now out there on the other side even though they know the ruling is a lie. Shame. Shame on them and every person who remains silent while a parent lies to hurt the relationship of the other parent with their children. My 8-year-old doesn’t know what it is like to daven in shul with his father because of these lies. People say ‘just give the get and get it over with’. They ask you when you give the get if you are doing it with your free will? I would be lying like them if I said yes. If Hshm seal is emes and we have rabbis, judges, communities, newspapers, etc, all lying, then what do you think is going to happen in this world when people lie? Did you hear about the 13-year-old boy who committed suicide because all he wanted to do was see his father for his bar mitzvah and the mother didn’t let? When are we going to hold mothers accountable for their actions??
Finally, and I am not ashamed to even say it, but there will be no get until everyone who lied comes forward and admits they lied and damages are paid. As a people we should be shaming the liars and violators of halachah and not the innocent people so the innocent children suffer. |
how did Ari, a man, know there was a thread in the first place? is he on here?
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:25 pm
| amother Hydrangea wrote: | | how did Ari, a man, know there was a thread in the first place? is he on here? |
Many forums on this site are viewable to the general public. This thread was put in the social media forum which is viewable to the entire internet.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:25 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | She clearly refused to move out and kept the entire house for herself. He didn't want to use police to remove his children without a place to stay. So as long as she was his halachic wife, he allowed her to stay. The ball was in her court but she, wanted it all. |
How do you CLEARLY know this is true??
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amother
Buttercup
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:30 pm
| amother Wine wrote: | So you blindly believe the Gett refusers story. I'm so sick reading this. This is the exact story my gett with holder claims. I don't even want to go into details here but it was COMPLETELY upside down untrue. And yes my now xh is a covert narcissistic abuser. And yes he seems to be a saint to everyone outside the household.
I can't believe nine women liked your post with shows that they too believe blindly. |
I'm not saying anything about that post or those likes specifically, because it's against the rules, I just want to say that in general you don't have to believe that all likes are done by women. It's reasonable to be open to the idea that there may be men on this site liking posts and even posting.
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amother
Brickred
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 3:41 pm
Before I continue reading I want to know which Halachos you wanted her to abide by. I copied from the post “ I said I was not going to give the get until everything is changed to follow halacha and Jewish law.”
There are many Halachos that were created for a different time, and in today’s environment is extremely unfair to women.
I also want to know… (I didn’t finish reading the post past what I copied) but if you(Ari) would’ve been a woman and the situation would be reversed what would you do? (You wouldn’t be able to refuse a get)
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amother
Chambray
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 4:46 pm
| Yael wrote: | I received an email from Ari Satz wanting to respond to the questions in this thread.
———-—
This is Ari Satz, the ‘get refuser’. The admin was nice enough to allow me to write a response and agreed to post it.
There is a vey valid point here. Halachah and Torah law should be followed. My question is, why is it that when a woman absolutely abuses the system and violates halacha and Torah law, they lie and blame the man. I offered the get from the beginning. We agreed on a custody (mutually agreed). I didn’t want my kids to suffer so all I asked is that we put custody behind us and I was going to give the get. I didn’t care about anything else, but my kids. She refused to sign any custody until “I get the money and assets I want and if I don’t get the money and assets I want, I will take you to trial for everything”. She has a rich sister in Israel paying her bills while I had no one helping. There were times I would spend $600/hr ($400 for a lawyer and $200 for my half of the mediator), we would agree on a custody and then I would hear her say ‘oh, I’m not signing’. This went on for over a year and my kids were suffering. I begged every Rabbi, beis din, anyone who would listen, but no one helped me. She sent me a hazmana for the get. I agreed to go to beis din, have them adjudicate the case and give the get. She refused. She used the kids as leverage for money and even made a suggestion that she move with the kids to Israel so she can be closer to her family and I can visit once a month. She had no problem taking my own kids away from me. Finally, the judge was fed up this wasn’t getting done and appoints a guardian to make a recommendation. The recommendation came back as 50/50 custody and she gets her get. I said fine, she refused and wanted trial. I couldn’t afford it and my kids were done. I couldn’t do it to them. I said I would just sign whatever you want, but you’re not getting your get until everything is fixed. I got one day a week and every other weekend. Ironically, after the divorced was finalized, she tried fighting custody again just to hurt me. However, I ended up getting full custody of my oldest son. We were supposed to have a follow up after that, but of course she refused and the judges around here are terrible. She took me to trial for finances. She didn’t care because she wasn’t paying for it. I said I was not going to give the get until everything is changed to follow halacha and Jewish law. She wouldn’t settle until I agreed to go to beis Din for adjudication for the get. Not really knowing there was corrupt beis din’s I picked the worst one – Avi Kahan. The courts forced me to go. If you watched the video, you know he lied. My ex knows it’s a lie, the rabbis know it’s a lie, and ORA knows it’s a lie. They defamed me based on these lies and ORA even protested my parents based on these lies. Now you want the get with my free will??? This must be a joke. I never lied, I never held back the get, I followed Torah law. The only part of Torah law they want to follow is to make sure she gets her get before she remarries. Not sure what the point is? The loshon hara spoken was worse than getting remarried without a get. Now, I am plastered all over the place as a ‘get refuser’ all based on lies. All these rabbis who I begged for help and did nothing are now out there on the other side even though they know the ruling is a lie. Shame. Shame on them and every person who remains silent while a parent lies to hurt the relationship of the other parent with their children. My 8-year-old doesn’t know what it is like to daven in shul with his father because of these lies. People say ‘just give the get and get it over with’. They ask you when you give the get if you are doing it with your free will? I would be lying like them if I said yes. If Hshm seal is emes and we have rabbis, judges, communities, newspapers, etc, all lying, then what do you think is going to happen in this world when people lie? Did you hear about the 13-year-old boy who committed suicide because all he wanted to do was see his father for his bar mitzvah and the mother didn’t let? When are we going to hold mothers accountable for their actions??
Finally, and I am not ashamed to even say it, but there will be no get until everyone who lied comes forward and admits they lied and damages are paid. As a people we should be shaming the liars and violators of halachah and not the innocent people so the innocent children suffer. |
Anyone ever hear the beis din named being corrupt? The reputation it has is of being fair and hearing out women
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chestnut
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 4:55 pm
| amother Buttercup wrote: | | I'm not saying anything about that post or those likes specifically, because it's against the rules, I just want to say that in general you don't have to believe that all likes are done by women. It's reasonable to be open to the idea that there may be men on this site liking posts and even posting. |
That imamother must be the ex-husband himself, his mother or sister. I hope it's not his second wife cause that would be sad for her.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 07 2024, 6:40 pm
For anyone who needs context here you go:
In October 2023, Ari Satz sued ORA, its executive director Keshet Starr and The Jewish Link, as well as a Bergenfield rabbi who had been involved with advocating for the get. Ari Satz claimed that the photograph that was printed in ORA’s flyer violated his privacy, and that those who shared the flyer had defamed him and purposely made him appear “disheveled.” The lawsuit sought $30 million in damages.
https://jewishlink.news/lawsui.....ssed/
The amount asked for is telling! And he said in his own words above he’s not giving the get until he gets all his damages paid up.
For more background:
https://www.getora.org/satz
I’m really surprised and confused that Yael wanted to allow a man to post on this all women website, not just any man, but a get refuser.
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