IM modern orthodox - AMA.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:04 am

amother Mustard wrote:

You’ve taken people some wouldn’t even consider MO and lumped them in. You totally distorted what Rabbi Weinreb said. It’s not “fine” - that’s not what he said. He said the people are trying to deal with juice, often teenagers and young adult, who are anxious, depressed, and often suicidal because of gender dysmorphia. So we can shut them, and they will either become totally unobservant or kill themselves or try and deal with it. And no way does he feel that it’s OK and teh optimal way to live. Perhaps the difference between you and MO is the ability to understand nuance and analyze things in an intelligent manner. It’s not all black and white. If you only knew how many people have become part of the modern orthodox community, because their parents no longer speak with them for a whole host of reasons. Or they were s-xually abused, which is more prevalent in the right wing community and for sure in teh chassidish community.

The people quoted and cited in these articles work for Modern Orthodox institutions. Don't throw the "No True Scotsman" fallacy at me.

amother

Eggplant

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:05 am

amother Pansy wrote:

They have different pressures and other reasons these things are issues. There is a high rate that become not frum probably higher than other communities. Someone wrote an article on it recently. Men abuse power everywhere maybe in different ways but it’s not rainbow and unicorns.

its interesting because when ever I walk into their communties or shul etc. It looks as if they are happy non judgemental and supportive of each other. I'll just share with you an example. I have a child with sn and unfortunately it is a bit of a stigma where I live and people try not to talk about it too much etc...
While I was once in a MO shul and the president announced loudly that they are collecting funds to help sn children in the community and he even mentioned he has a special needs child himself.
I felt it's more of a warm atmosphere where everyone supports and loves each other and doesn't see one another different because of less or more chumros.. and are not judgemental of each other. Maybe I am just dreaming that everything is perfect with others and not ourselves...

amother

Mustard

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:05 am

amother Pansy wrote:

I do wonder about the claim that schools are more expensive because it’s a better education. I went to a BY we had a computer lab, a gym and a full extra curricular program ( no sports leagues ). I don’t find that any MO person knows more math, science, history, or English than I do. Jewish wise I can open any Sefer read it and understand, I know halacha inside out, I know Jewish history inside out, I don’t find myself not able to keep up with debates ever. So I’m curious about this better education claim, sometimes I feel like I had a more well rounded education than people I meet. Also about the teachers being better, I know hundreds of Lakewood guys that travel to five towns and nj schools to teach Jewish subjects, none of them have degrees. They claim the whole Judaic department is made up of yeshivish rebbeim and teachers in these schools.

I have kids in very MO and very BY. MO is by far much better English. Cannot even compare. These kids are taking college level physics and math - not the “Thomas Edison or FDU “ college courses like my BY girls did. They literally write theses. Try and get a BY girl or yeah ish boy into an Ivy. For girls the linideonkodesh is much harder in BY. Boys - Gemara depends on level but generally more right you go the harder - simply bc they don’t learn so much English so have more time for it b

amother

Mustard

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:06 am

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

The people quoted and cited in these articles work for Modern Orthodox institutions. Don't throw the "No True Scotsman" fallacy at me.

Of course but holding this out as the ideal. They are dealing with people where they are. No one is saying living a gay lifestyle is ok. Again yu lack nuance

MommyPhD

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:10 am

amother Mustard wrote:

Okay, you've claimed I don't understand nuance, so I'm going to go ahead and post under my screen name, which will reveal that I hold a PhD and am a working professor. I can't abide that kind of insult. I'm a historian/literature scholar, and my whole stock and trade is interpreting history and texts.

For what it's worth, I'm profoundly influenced by the belief Modern Orthodoxy claims to have invented about the coexistence of secularism and Judaism. I just don't believe that Modern Orthodoxy invented that concept. But that's a digression, as is your final claim that MO is a refuge for s-xually abused ex-Hasidim (and I note a lack of citation for the claim that s-xual abuse is more prevalent in right-wing orthodoxy).

Let me pull a few quotations from Weinreb saying we should be accepting of LGBTQ.

MommyPhD

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:13 am

amother Mustard wrote:

Of course but holding this out as the ideal. They are dealing with people where they are. No one is saying living a gay lifestyle is ok. Again yu lack nuance and frankly intelligence

I never said (please show me where!!) MO thinks LGBTQ is the ideal. I said they publicly accept it. It's not my fault that you don't agree with these rabbis and leaders who are employed by MO institutions. But their quotes are there in the articles.

MommyPhD

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:16 am

"Weinreb frequently cited “Dor Tahapuchot” by Rabbi Idan Ben Efraim, a Hebrew exploration of transgender issues that he said is considered one of the most extensive. “The current appearance of a transsexual [does] have some bearing in social interactional situations, so that a trans-male should dress like a man and a trans-female should dress like a woman,” Weinreb said via email. Efraim, he wrote, “suggested that in an Orthodox synagogue, where the genders sit separately, a trans-male should sit in the men’s section, and the trans-female should sit in the women’s section.” Similarly, for someone who is shomer negiah, concerned about touch, Weinreb said a transgender person should be treated based upon how they present their gender, not the gender they were assigned at birth."

amother

Eggplant

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:18 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I will answer all recent questions after chag here. Shabbat and simchat torah start in about 20 minutes.
I just want to say rhat its been over all wonderful that this thread has continued wirh such respect for everyone.
Chag sameach and shabbat shalom!!!!!

matches your screen name Very Happy

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:25 am

MommyPhD wrote:

Weinreb is not the MO spokesman.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 11:48 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

Yes you are dreaming. I don’t want to use this thread to talk about their issues but they exist and people struggle. Every community has their strengths and weaknesses.