Rain first night Succos

amother

DarkPurple

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 2:52 pm

Oh gosh we're gonna be by my in-laws who super machmir in everything, like religious OCD type. They're gonna make everyone wait and wait. They will be insulted if I ask if the kids and me and can just eat inside. And the kids are gonna be hungry and going nuts and getting wild...help

amother

Khaki

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 3:38 pm

OT but we have a Sukkos machzor with wavy pages. We always remember the year that it rained so hard, the machzor got soaked just in the time it took to make kiddush.

amother

Oak

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 5:12 pm

amother DarkPurple wrote:

You make kiddush for you and the kids inside. Let everyone else wait.

I already planned with my mother that I'm making kiddush for myself, my grandmother and the kids and she can wait with the men

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 5:56 pm

amother DarkPurple wrote:

You need to speak to dh before the kids are hungry and wild, before you even light candles and yom tov starts. This isn’t coming as a surprise. We know sukkos is coming. We know there’s rain in the forecast. Make a plan together and stick to it. If it ends up not raining you didn’t lose anything.
Decide how long dh wants to wait if it’s raining. Decide how long it’s reasonable to expect kids to wait. Are they little kids, or older ones who will want to hear kiddush? Kids older than bar and bat mitzvah can eat something before candle lighting and wait as long as dh does. Younger kids can eat earlier. Make sure your in laws know what your plans are in advance. You can discuss with dh who gets to break it to them, probably better if it’s him because they’re his parents.
Kids old enough to understand about eating in the sukkah can be part of the discussion, especially if they’re old enough to learn the halacha inside. Little ones who don’t understand shouldn’t be expected to miss dinner and bedtime because it’s raining. If you have a plan in advance everyone will be happy, which is also one of the mitzvot of the day.

amother

Dill

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 6:27 pm

hodeez wrote:

Say Kiddush in the sukkah then eat inside

We don't do this. My husband doesn't eat anything chutz l'sukkah ever, no matter the weather.
He's waited hours and hours in the past
Chabad for reference.

mom!

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 7:26 pm

amother DarkPurple wrote:

Omg I feel you. Feed everyone a full meal erev yomtov. Trust me on this.

ysydmom

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 8:42 pm

mom! wrote:

Omg I feel you. Feed everyone a full meal erev yomtov. Trust me on this.

can you feed your kids a full meal before yom tov this way they won't be hungry and everyone will be calmer or how about speaking to your in laws beforehand and let them know that you appreciate the minhagim but you need to feed your kids even if it's raining how can you work it out so that everyone is happy. Tell your mom in law that you are trying to avoid kvetchy kranky kids (and adults) lol, maybe make some shehakol cakes that don't have to go in succah for everyone to nosh on like pesach type?

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 8:51 pm

On the first night, we wait until chatzos (approx. 1:00 am this year) before making kiddush in the house. On other nights, we don’t wait at all. We’re planning to give the grandkids a seudah in the house and then have them go to sleep, but the adults will wait up till 1:00 and then eat in the house Sad

.

(It’s very sad, when it rains on the first night of Sukkos.)

Ema of 5

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 8:57 pm

amother Dill wrote:

We don't do this. My husband doesn't eat anything chutz l'sukkah ever, no matter the weather.
He's waited hours and hours in the past
Chabad for reference.

Same, except we aren’t Chabad. I wonder if that’s where his family got the minhag from though….

amother

Mocha

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 8:58 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Same, except we aren’t Chabad. I wonder if that’s where his family got the minhag from though….

What if it rains all night? Or all day?

Ema of 5

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 9:00 pm

amother Mocha wrote:

What if it rains all night? Or all day?

BH I don’t think that ever happened. I’m trying to remember what my father would have done, but I can’t remember. Also day is different, and so is every other night except the first night. Other nights we’ve eaten inside, but there have been times when we had to wait the first night. It was never hours and hours though. I think at some point he would say enough, we will eat inside. Make kiddush and hamotzei outside quickly when we can, and then do the rest of the meal inside.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Thu, Sep 28 2023, 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Oak

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 9:02 pm

ysydmom wrote:

Yes feed before YT, but shehakol cakes don't help if you can't make kiddush

amother

Azure

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 9:08 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

What do you do if it rains on Sukkos first or second night?
by Rabbi Yitzchok D. Frankel

While it is not within the scope of this article to deal with all the philosophical implications of rain on Sukkos, suffice it to say that our sages have told us that it is not a sign of blessing to be forced out of the sukkah. We pray, therefore, that this question remains in the field of the theoretical.

To properly understand the following answer, a number of fundamental points must be prefaced.
1- To say birchas haMazon, at any time, a minimum of a kizayis (the volume of flour equal to the volume of an olive) must be eaten within approximately four minutes.
2- For one to be permitted to say the bracha of "leishev baSukkah," a minimum of a (more than) kibeitza (the volume equals to double that of a kizayis) of bread or cake must be eaten in the sukkah.
3- The bracha of "shehechiyanu" relates also to the sukkah; but only on the first night of Sukkos.
4- The poskim disagree as to the requirements of eating in the sukkah on the first two nights of Sukkos if it is raining. The opinion of the Rama is that there is a requirement to eat a minimum of a kizayis in the sukkah, even in the rain, on the first two nights. Other poskim hold that the exemption of eating in the sukkah in the rain applies equally to all the days of Sukkos.
5- The inability to make a bracha on a mitzvah does not affect the fulfillment of that mitzvah.
6- We are strict whenever we have a doubt concerning the fulfillment of a Torah law.
7- We do not make a bracha whenever we have a doubt concerning the correctness of that bracha.
8- The requirement of kiddush can only be fulfilled at the place where the person is eating. Eating in this context requires either a kizayis of bread or food of the five grains (those items requiring the brocho of mezonos).
9- Since the mitzvah of sukkah is dependent on a specific time, women are exempted.

Response

I- On the first night of Sukkos a married man or one eating with female family members or young children should wait approximately one hour to see if the rain will stop. If the rain continues he should go into the sukkah; say kiddush with "shehechiyanu," wash and eat at least a kizayis of bread in the rain. He should NOT say "leishev baSukkah." He may then complete his meal in the house. After the meal, he should wait until 1:04am DST(in NYC)* to see if the rain will stop. If the rain stops, he then washes, enters the sukkah again, says the brocho "leishev baSukkah," eats at least a (more than) kibeitza of bread and then says birchas haMazon.

II- On the second night, if it rains, one need not wait at all and he may begin his meal immediately in the house. Kiddush with "shehechiyanu" is made in the house. This would even apply to a single person. At the end of the meal, before benching, even if it is still raining, he should eat a kizayis of bread in the sukka in the rain. Again, a bracha of "leishev baSukkah" is not said. A bracha of "shehechiyanu" is not needed for the sukkah on the second night. One may then go back into the house to bentch. According to many poskim, even on the second night, one should wait until 1:04am DST (in NYC)* to see if the rain stops. If the rain does stop then the procedure is the same as the first night.

III- On all other days or nights of Sukkos, if the rain is so strong in the sukkah that if it was raining in the house a person would be driven out of his home to find other shelter, or if the rain is ruining his food, preventing him from eating, he need not eat in the sukka. If one has already started his meal inside, and the rain stops, he may complete his meal in the house.

IV- The above procedures incorporate the need to have kiddush at the same locale where the meal is taking place when everyone eating eats together. This issue needs to be clarified for the female members of the family when they choose not to eat in the sukkah while it is raining.

The bolded makes me sad. It's brought in seforim that it's like a master throwing the food, he's being served, back into the servants face.

After all the hard work I'm looking forward to sitting in the sukkah. I hope the rain stops in time.

amother

Begonia

Fri, Sep 29 2023, 12:08 am

I don’t remember the last time we had a forecast of serious rain the first night. I’m not looking forward.

Ema of 5

Fri, Sep 29 2023, 10:26 am

So now I have a question. When it rains Friday night, it’s a bracha. When it rains the first night of succos it’s not. Which takes precedence?

amother

Dill

Fri, Sep 29 2023, 10:32 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

So now I have a question. When it rains Friday night, it’s a bracha. When it rains the first night of succos it’s not. Which takes precedence?

I'd say the Gishmei Bracha of Friday night, I'm thinking about how we usually pasken that something that's a tadir- it's always there takes precedence over something that only comes occasionally.
Think Retzei and Yaaleh V'yavo as a reference.