"My ticket to Olam Haba"

Motek

Wed, Oct 26 2005, 10:29 pm

Aish produced two nice movies called "Inspired". One interviews female BT's and the other interviews male BT's. The point of the movies is to inspire frum people to get involved in kiruv, to show frum people that you don't have to be a "kiruv professional", that you just need to be nice and do things like invite people for Shabbos.

I saw the women's movie (about 35 min.) and it was very nicely done. It was interesting for me to see the faces of women whose articles I had read.

After the movie, we were given a flyer which includes the names of six roshei yeshiva who urge people to get involved in "kiruv rechokim". The flyer includes a card (like a credit card) which people are asked to keep in their wallet to remind them of ways they can inspire other Jews.

The flyer says:

Quote:

The INSPIRE card is the "Only credit card with frequent flier miles to olam haba."

I had a meal with a woman (not Lubavitch) over Yom Tov. I told her about the movie and showed her the flyer and when she this line her reaction was, "Disgusting!" Confused

chen

Sat, Oct 29 2005, 8:13 pm

I think the wording "my ticket to olam haba" was not well thought-out--it does sound rather crass--but surely no one believes the parents are rubbing their hands together in glee, chortling "oooh, lucky me, I have a reserved seat, hahahahahaha." Surely they mean to inspire us to put a positive spin on our nisyonos. "yesh sachar li-feulasech" is a more elegant way of expressing the same thought.

Whenever someone would break a dish, tear a garment, lose money or whatever, my mother would say "zol zein far eine kapporeh" (may it be for an atonement). I also used to tell myself this whenever my children were being especially difficult (when I was clear-headed enough to remember it, anyway!) and found it rather comforting.

ElTam

Sat, Oct 29 2005, 9:00 pm

I guess here's the part that I have a problem with. Actually two parts.

1. IMHO a child is first and foremost the possession of HaShem, and secondarily their own person with ownership over themselves. My child doesn't mean "my nachas machine" or "my ticket to Olam Haba" or anything other than "my responsibility to care for and love that HaShem has put on loan with me."

2. Second, I think it is chutzpadik to think that we can understand the workings of the Eibischter. Not just chutzpadik but dangerous. For example, what if C"V, HaShem gave me a child who got involved in bad behaviours, and I made this decision my suffering with this child was my "ticket to Olam HaBa" and in fact, this child was a message to me not to be so self-centered or a message to me not to judge other people with problems or a thousand different messages or kapporos that we can't begin to fathom. So now, because I think I've got the universe all figured out, I'm not even getting what I was supposed to get out of the situation.

I read a biography of the Manchester Rosh Yeshiva, and there was a story in it about a couple who had R"L lost a child to a misscarriage. They went to see the Rosh Yeshiva and while they were there, the wife was laying out all these reasons of things she had done that could have made her lose the baby. And the Rosh Yeshiva told her that it was forbidden to make those calculations, because we, as humans, are not capable of understanding the logic of HaShem.

So, it's one thing to think, "How, as a Yid and a mentch, am I going to handle this test HaShem is giving me?" It's something else entirely to say you know what the test means.

Just my .02.

Motek

Sun, Oct 30 2005, 6:06 pm

sarahd wrote:

Why disgusting? Confused

Did you ask her to explain? Or can you explain her reaction?

She finds it very distasteful to use other people as your ticket to Olam Haba. She mentioned to me that a nice family invites her (a single woman) sometimes for a meal. Although they are truly nice, she wants to avoid going to them because she feels that she is their chesed project, I.e. their ticket to Olam Haba. So too with much of the kiruv movement, she is bothered by the "notch in the belt" mentality.

Motek

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 11:49 am

chavamom asked: what is the problem with reinforcing the fact that by doing kiruv, you are doing a mitzvah?

In the case of kiruv in particular, seems that it has happened that those on the receiving end of "kiruv advances" by those who are motivated by points in heaven rather than Ahavas Yisrael, can tell the difference.

So bottom line, the Ahavas Yisrael approach is more effective. If we are interested in inspiring Jews about Yiddishkeit rather than our our own "good seat" in the next world, we will opt for the more effective approach.

Motek

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 12:00 pm

chavamom wrote:

I think the young women in question has her own issues of feeling like a 'chesed project' that she is projecting onto the statement.

seems rather presumptuous to think anything about the woman when you know nothing about her except that she doesn't like the "notch in the belt" mentality

Motek

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 12:04 pm

tzivi wrote:

My sweet seven year old Mendy k"ah told me today that a boy in his class was giving out lollies to the boys who davened nicely. Mendy said that he was given a lolly, but he gave it back to the boy and said, "I don't need a lolly for davening, I only daven for Hashem, not to get lollies."

Aaaaaaahh such nachus, Boruch Hashem!!

chen

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 12:06 pm

No one wants to be anyone else's mitzvah project, whether it's kiruv or anything else. An elderly neighbor of mine told me how annoyed she is when certain local HS girls visit her, b/c she can tell they are doing it just to fulfill their school chessed requirement. How can she tell? By fact that they are watching the clock, by the fact that when school is out they don't come by, and by the fact that once they graduate she never sees them again. As she says " I don't mind their getting credit for visiting me; I mind that the reason they're visiting me is to get the credit!"

gryp

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 12:36 pm

Eitam- I second your post, you explained it very well.

my brother used to visit an elderly wealthy man who although he wasnt frum, would donate generously to the Chabad and Kollel institutions. he was known as a grumbly grouchy man to those who would come visit him on their fundraising rounds, although my brother really liked him and enjoyed visiting him.
one day, while my brother was visiting him, he found out why the man grouched at others. members of a different organization happened to stop by to visit while he was there, expecting to receive a check. the old man grumbled at them during the visit and then gave them a check for a small amount. after they had left, the man told my brother: they only come to visit me in order to get my money so I give them small donations. but I know you come to me because you care about me, not just for my money, so I give you big donations.
of course people can tell why youre really there- because you care, or because you want to get something out of them.
people are not objects you do a mitzvah with like a lulav and an esrog. there's nothing more self-centered than using another person for your mitzvos.

chavamom

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 1:56 pm

Motek wrote:

chavamom wrote:

I think the young women in question has her own issues of feeling like a 'chesed project' that she is projecting onto the statement.

seems rather presumptuous to think anything about the woman when you know nothing about her except that she doesn't like the "notch in the belt" mentality

My point was she is *assuming* that people treat her as a 'chesed' project. And as far as I know, 'chanasas orchim' is a mitzvah and I don't think that most people do it for a 'notch in their belt'. Most people do it b/c they think it is a MITZVAH and if someone assumes 'well, I'm just a notch in their belt' and they aren't doing it b'c of 'ahavas yisrael' (er, I think the motivation is supposed to be that they are commanded to do it, hence it is the right thing, nachon?), then yes, I assume the person in question is projecting *their* issue.

chavamom

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 2:17 pm

BTW - I'm assuming (having worked for Aish in the past and knowing their message) that the point of such cards with such a tag line was to remind frum people that 'kol yisrael arevim ze beze'. Many of them think that they are 'patur' from kiruv. Even if they are only inviting someone to be 'earning points in heaven' wouldn't it be better than NOT inviting someone over? Talking to the non-frum co-worker? Explaining something even if they aren't a 'kiruv professional'? Calling someone to say hi?

NAH - they might feel like a 'chesed project'.

Motek

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 3:57 pm

Yet this same woman does not ALWAYS feel like a chesed project when she's invited out. She specified a particular family not "people" and had specific reasons for singling them out. If she ALWAYS felt this way, then I would agree with you.

Quote:

... they aren't doing it b'c of 'ahavas yisrael' (er, I think the motivation is supposed to be that they are commanded to do it, hence it is the right thing, nachon?)

they are commanded to do the mitzva of v'ohavta l'rei'acha kamocha

Quote:

the point of such cards with such a tag line was to remind frum people that 'kol yisrael arevim ze beze'.

do you think that the message of kol yisrael etc. is conveyed by that tag line?

kol yisrael areivim zeh b'zeh is one thing
earning points in heaven is another thing

Quote:

Many of them think that they are 'patur' from kiruv.

true, which is why they need to be educated about their areivim obligations

Quote:

Even if they are only inviting someone to be 'earning points in heaven' wouldn't it be better than NOT inviting someone over? Talking to the non-frum co-worker? Explaining something even if they aren't a 'kiruv professional'? Calling someone to say hi?

yes, but as mentioned above, if the person on the receiving end "smells" something "off," it can backfire

the women interviewed for Inspired emphasized the genuine love and interest they felt people had for/in them

TzenaRena

Tue, Nov 29 2005, 4:22 pm

RG wrote:

Funny, but I've come across statements to a different effect. that the Rebbe wants us to do Mivtzayim, not (only) to be mekarev other Yidden, but (even more importantly)for the sake of our own Neshomo! I've heard this a number of times! I'm sure someone has an inkling about this, where or when the Rebbe said this.

carrot

Wed, Nov 30 2005, 12:08 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

RG wrote:

people are not objects you do a mitzvah with like a lulav and an esrog. there's nothing more self-centered than using another person for your mitzvos.

I think that the two ideas are complementary. People are not objects for our benefit. Our goal in helping them is not merely to build merit for ourselves. On the other extreme though it is possible to feel that we are perfect already and they are the needy ones - so the Rebbe says to realize that it is also for our benefit.

TzenaRena

Thu, Dec 01 2005, 7:58 pm

It has to do with the saying of R. Mordechai Hatzaddik in the name of the Baal Shem Tov: A Neshomo comes down to this world and lives for 70- 80 years in order to do a toivah (favor) for another Jew b'gashmius and especially b'ruchnius. (HaYom Yom of 5 Iyar, p.51)

the Rebbe speaks about how our Neshomo is dependent on and needs the toivah that we do for another Jew, because without that we did not accomplish the mission for which our Neshomo was put here.