Airfare Tickets Gemach/ The undertakers wedding

myheartalk ↓

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:33 am

My friend in Eretz Yisroel has a son who is engaged to a girl from Toronto. She did not go to the vort because of the airfare and is looking for help with the tickets so she, her husband and two children can fly to the wedding. The expectations in Toronto are also so different from what people expect to spend in Israel from the jewelry to the flowers to the photographer to the music. Here people take a one man band, there its five. My friend had saved some money hoping that she could help the couple with some household and grocery expenses in the first year. They are young, her son only learned in a yeshiva and has a medical problem that precludes him from many jobs. She does not work either but will look for work. They don't have any furniture or household goods and the shadchanis keeps saying how she would hate for the girl to be embarassed that not only she's marrying someone with a medical history but she can't keep up with the joneses and recommended taking out even more loans.
So does anyone know of a ticket gemach or some other ideas?

I told her that someone that drives the kind of cars they do (she has none) or lives in the kind of houses they do (she lives in a converted basement machsan) will be glad to tell you how you need to appease and make a good impression on the kallahs family but they will not have to suffer the consequences that you do. (ie more years at a job that has over a three hour commute on two busses RT)

They kallahs side said they were told to buy the chosson a gold watch because everyone does. He never even wears a watch and a gold watch? Then he's homeless after the wedding? Why all the pressure to conform and make the bride and groom feel deprived or jyped if not receiving their "fair share" There is too much shaming as a pressure to support the bridal industry. It reminds me of the non jewish undertakers who want the most elaborate coffin so as not to embarasse the deceased or his family.

↑ myheartalk ↓

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:33 am

Marion

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:46 am

I don't know of any gemachs, I'm sorry. Let me just state now, that my sister is getting married in Toronto in the summer, and we're also facing airfares. The prices in Toronto are outrageous, partly because of the va'ad (for food), and because one-man bands just don't exist.

However:
There are LOTS of simcha performers, and they're not all outrageously expensive.
She can cut some of her costs by buying whatever she's going to buy here. A dress, she can have her sheitl set before she goes (200NIS instead of $150). Even a seamstress is cheaper here. If her son really doesn't want the watch, it's not tacky to tell his future in-laws that.

The standard of living (I'm not talking poor/well off, just generally) is totally different in Toronto and in Israel, and I would hope that anyone whose daughter is in the shidduch parsha with an Israeli would understand that. To get upset over it would be a BAD way for them to start!

mandksima ↓

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 2:32 am

I don't understand who's having the problem. It sounds like the Shadchanit is making the most complaints. How dare she suggest that marrying someone with a medical history is something so negative that she should at least be able to be rich because of it! It has nothing to do with one another. If she agreed to marry him, then she obviously has made a decision to live less elegantly than life in Toronto unless her parents are supporting. Why can't they talk about it? If communication is difficult at this level, it is only going to get worse.

What exactly do your friends want? A few free airline tickets? Are they crazy? Everyone has to pay, why are they any different? Are they contributing to the wedding also? If so, just tell the bride's side that they can only give such and such as they have to reserve money for the tickets as well. They can make the wedding a little simpler somewhere (rent gown, do own hair and make-up, one less course, less flowers, smaller photo albums, whatever.) It has to come from the bride too. Compromising doesn't need to wait until they are married.

Is the couple going to live in Israel or Toronto? Why should a newly married couple have a house full of new furniture? Let them buy used things one by one when they are working.

Did they buy the gold watch already? Why wasn't it discussed?

I really don't get any of this.

shalhevet

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 6:17 am

When people make a shidduch they look into the financial side too, meaning the kalla's side didn't think the chosson's side were millionaires and suddenly got a shock.

If the chosson and kalla are old enough to get married, they are also old enough to make decisions and understand their parents' money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see anything wrong in saying, 'I can't afford a 5 piece band, only 1 piece. But I've put aside money to help you in shana rishona and if it's really important to you for the one evening, I could use that money.'

Regarding gifts: it is not a one-way street. By accepting the watch, the chosson's family is obligating themselves to buy expensive presents for the kalla. If they can't afford it, I'm sure they can ask the other side nicely that they'll both forego the traditional expensive gifts.

Two other things:
One, they should stop discussing anything with the shadchanit.
Two, you can't ask people to fund airplane tickets if you are paying for a 5 piece band, expensive clothes etc. If they are looking for a loan - it is assur to take a loan when you don't know how you can possibly repay it.

↑ myheartalk ↓

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:23 pm

By some of the posts I see that you havn't lived in Israel either. No they don't have the money for a five piece band. My friend already told the kallahs mother to please not spend money on a watch or seofrim. He has seforim from his bar mitsva and doesn't need a gold watch.

This is a woman who has worked every day, taking two busses each way for for over a three hour commute RT and making about as much as you pay your maids. They don't own a car. The kallahs family also rents and both parents work and just scrape by. There are more siblings who want to marry on both sides. I don't see why a ticket gemach is such a far reach of a thing to ask for. Four tickets to Toronto RT is expensive. She already flatly refused the photographer proposed as the one everyone takes saying she wouldn't have the walls to hang the portrait pictures on if she tried. The parents moved into a smaller one bedroom basement apartment in anticipation that they have three unemployed children who would like to marry so to the person who said everyone buys their own tickets, would you do that?

Rent instead of buy a dress? She always finds things at a gemach, we don't shop at department stores. But maybe now they will tell her that the people in Toronto will be able to tell the difference and she had better find something better.

↑ bandcm

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:48 pm

myheartalk wrote:

I think you misunderstood what people are saying.
Shalhevet and I wrote similar things, and she does live in Israel.
You don't have to convince us of your friend's poverty. We understood the situation.
My point was - they do not have to do more than they can afford. Banish the nosy shadchan. Sit down honestly with the kalla and her parents. Stop worrying what the people in Toronto will say!!
And absolutely do NOT take tzedaka/gmach money to pay for tickets when you are paying for other things instead. It is unethical.

↑ mandksima

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:48 pm

myheartalk wrote:

I assumed from the way you wrote the first post that the kallah's family has money and high expectations as well and they are just not communicating to the other side. If they are also scraping by, why is anyone worried what everyone else in the Toronto community will think? They should just do what they could afford and that's it. If they are embarrassed at the simplicity of a wedding each side can afford, it's cheaper to have the wedding in Israel and fly the kallah's family in. It's not unheard of but if they'd rather spend money they don't have because it is important for them to invite all their friends and relatives, then I don't know what to say as I don't think they qualify for tzedakah to travel. Do you mean the gemach ticket to be a loan? Like Shalhevet said, only if they can pay it back.

Maybe I'm wrong and not understanding the picture correctly.

costanza

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 1:50 pm

Once again, another post highlighting the extreme craziness that is the shidduch scene.

Let me ask, how did this couple come to fruition? Did they meet when she was in Israel for a year? Or was there enough money around for them to fly back and forth to meet each other?

Did it occur to anyone (maybe the "shaddchanis") to let these 2 wait until they can be self sufficient? Maybe get the jobs first and then get married?

And why is this "shaddchanis" so embarassed for the girl? I don't think her priorities are in the right place. Instead of telling the family to worry about keeping up with the Joneses, she should encourage them to make their own way and not be swayed by such gashmius.
And one more thing - I would never donate to an airfare gemach. I can think of about 1,000,000 other better causes.

↑ myheartalk

Wed, Dec 17 2008, 2:27 pm

He was in yeshiva in the states and took an overnight busride to meet her. Does it really matter? Neighther are big spenders but like I said when it comes to a wedding there is alot of pressure. Yes all her friends are more affluent and they know it's not going to be a lavish affair but even the toned down events are fancier than the lavish ones here are. It's way beyond either sides budget to make the toned down toned down event.
Many weddings in Israel invite guests for the chuppah and for dancing and some cheap, I mean really cheap, cake and juice and only close freinds and family will have a simple dinner (remember chumus? pickles?) try that somewhere else.

Why don't the yeshivas include teaching a trade? I don't know. Being as they don't, waiting more years to be older is not going to help. I'm sure they will both look for something to bring in income.