Chutzpah post high school

amother

OP ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 7:53 am

How am I supposed to be reacting when dd is extremely chutzpadik. For example will tell me to go to hell. Tell me shut up. Bh none of my other children talk like this. She is post high school has always had a mouth and struggles with yiddishkeit. I close my mouth and eyes to many things but chutzpah to me is inexcusable. I ask her when she’s relaxed how in the world she thinks she can talk like this and think she’ll get on in the world successfully. People are going to turn away from her. She’s just not getting it. So when she says these things to me how am I supposed to react? What’s the proper response? When I was her age I was married already so she’s definitely old enough to know and understand this behavior is ridiculous and immature.

amother

Hosta ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:19 am

Your daughter is an adult who you admitted is struggling with yiddishkeit.
You are way past age where you have the ability to change her.
Frankly your response when she is calm is damaging to her self esteem , not true and counter productive.

The most effective way is probably for you to work on letting her know she is loved and respected as she is.( this will take time)
People who feel respected are ussaly respectful back.

And people who feel that their parents disrespect them and find them hard. Are very often chutzpahdik.

Now this is more long term solution becouse it will take time.
Since you didn’t give examples I can’t give you a short term solution.

But she is an adult .Think of what would be an appropriate response or reaction to a spouse that is disrespectful and see if you can use these skills on her.
Treating her like a kid that is chutzpah will get nowhere with an adult

Good luck it sounds like such a painful place to be in.

Molly Weasley

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:26 am

amother Hosta wrote:

Why is it wrong to gently remind her, once she’s calmed down, that it's not appropriate to tell people to get lost, go to hell, shut up - especially those who are paying your bills?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:29 am

amother Hosta wrote:

Thank you! It’s definitely hard to remember at the intense times how old she is bc she acts so below her age in these instances. You’re right, I must remember she’s an adult and not treat as a child. She asked me to do her a long term favor - which would entail me spending an hr to an hr and half each time a few times a week doing which honestly I don’t have time for but I was doing it for her. I told her after she blew up on me over the shabbos table in front of some friends I won’t be doing the favor and she can hire someone to help her with it like most other people do with this specific favor and she is MAD. This may not have been the proper response and I said it very calmly and low and then continued on hosting. But enough is enough. Yes she is in therapy as well so hoping for change but for now it rough.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:30 am

amother Ivory wrote:

Honestly. Immature kids learn quicker when they are living in their own space. Adult responsibilities are a good teacher.

I’ve been thinking this would be an amazing wake up call. She doesn’t make enough to live on her own as she’s also in college and I dont have the funds to rent an apt for her so for now she’s with us!

amother

Oxfordblue ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:33 am

Sadly often children are only chutzpadik to parents and they can be very functional adults so your argument isn't valid or productive.
I'd suggest asking yourself or her what triggers her and seeing if you can change anything. I have a similar situation with one of my daughters and it's very challenging. My daughter doesn't have issues with yiddishkeit and her behavior is passive aggressive but it's very painful.

amother

Dill ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:34 am

amother Hosta wrote:

I strongly disagree. As parents we are obligated to set boundaries. She is an adult and she should be held accountable for inappropriate behaviors. She should not be treated as if she can do no wrong and no matter what she will be loved and validated. This is way more harmful than a mother telling her off and damaging her self esteem. Especially when you have other children in the home who are witnessing this. There’s nothing wrong with kids having יראת כבוד to parents. It’s not like the mother is punishing her, she is verbally setting boundaries which the parents are entitled to do. כיבוד אב ואם is kids to parents not vice versa.

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 8:51 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

Why is it wrong to gently remind her, once she’s calmed down, that it's not appropriate to tell people to get lost, go to hell, shut up - especially those who are paying your bills?

Nothing wrong with that.
That is a respectful way to respond .
It is wrong to tell her how will she ever succeed in life if she talks to her like that

amother

Marigold

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:01 am

I have the same with son of mine who is 17. He says the most hurtful statements in anger. He doesn’t have the best social skills . In general my other children are very respectful and I worry this shouldn’t change that. It used to make me mad. I am trying to just respond neutrally saying it’s not ok to speak to anyone that way and walk away.
I wish I knew how to fix it

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:07 am

amother Dill wrote:

There is a way to set boundaries.( and very important)
But once someone is an adult age you need to set boundaries the way you set boundaries with an adult and not as a kid.
If you would reread my comment you will see that I suggested that I said she should set boundaries similar to a way you would set boundaries with a spouse.
Respecting someone and showing love does not mean that we agree with all life choices .
But letting them know dispite this they are loved and respecting them for all their strength.( people don’t need to be treated as they can do no wrong to know they are loved as respected)

I feel that in a lot of chinich thread people get lost in what the goal of chinuch is
The goal is to create great adults not create a perfectly behaved children.

In this case when this child has reached adulthood and is not in a great place as an adult.
I believe the parent’s obligation is to put aside their kovod and what should be the ideal tzura of a home.
And focus on how to get this child to a place where they can lead a respectful and successful life.

notshanarishona ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:11 am

Although you can’t punish an adult child, and screaming is generally unproductive, you can definitely make paying for things dependent on behavior. She is old enough to be self sufficient so any extras you can require her work to make $ and only give money for if she treats you with respect . It also sounds like it would be beneficial for all for her to move out, she can get a job or get a roommate or two to cut costs. It doesn’t have to be unaffordable.

amother

↑ Hosta

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:14 am

amother OP wrote:

You sound like a good mom who is trying so hard.
Hashem should give you the strength to b able to nurture this child .
Some children are just tough.
But keep davening and believing in her.
My grandmother always say she get the mos nachos from her child who put her through h**l and back

amother

↑ Almond ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:15 am

amother Hosta wrote:

How old is your oldest? You do realize you can’t parent an adult child? At that point your job is done. You can only set boundaries that’s about it, or kick the kid out.

amother

↑ Offwhite ↓

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:16 am

notshanarishona wrote:

She can do that.
She will also destroy any relationship she currently has with her child.
Most parents still want to have a relationship after children become self sufficient adults.
You don't throw kids out of the house because they had chutzpa and were obnoxious!
Please OP, there are way better ways to deal with this.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jan 05 2025, 9:17 am

The Chutzpah is a symptom more than an issue in it of itself . I don’t think anyone at that age doesn’t know that saying go to hell is disrespectful- there is obviously something else at play. Therefore telling her it’s disrespectful and chutzpadik , even when you are calm is pointless and can be damaging if there is a core issue you aren’t addressing that she is screaming for help, masked in chutzpah