I actually don't care

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 10:34 am

I don't care to have a perfectly clean and neat house, mess doesn't bother me.
My house is hygienic (well maybe not on imamother standards) but it's not tidy.
I feel like I'm on a hamster wheel trying to keep on top of it all and the crazy thing is that I actually don't care.
What I do care about is not being considered dysfunctional. I care that my kids should not be ostracized. So I spend so much time and money on things I don't care about.
This applies to the types of clothes I buy, the maintenance of my home, sending to camps.....
It's starting to really upset me that I am so far away from what I really care about and what I want to spend on because of the fear of being the weirdos.
And it all starts with the insane standards of Instagram minimalist clean that is now expected of us.

amother

↑ Lilac ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 10:39 am

amother OP wrote:

I will say I have plenty balabusta friends (mainly Hungarian chassidish) whose homes have been on instagram standards before instagram existed and I’ve been feeling pressured from that…)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:28 pm

Clutter doesn't bother me, toys on the floor that are out of the way of where people walk don't bother me, coats on the couches, things on the counters. It doesn't bother me. Yes if your house has clothes and toys on the floor and cluttered counters or bookcases, it's considered nebach.
I don't care to have frum style clothes, I think kids should wear fun colors and clothes that can dirty. I think spending tens of thousands of dollars on camp is ridiculous and making shabbos meals with 15 dishes that no one actually needs to eat is also silly.
The problem is that we live in such a community centered society that I need to follow these norms to be considered normal.
I cannot move and I actually don't even live in a very fancy area but I do feel pressure.

amother

Blonde ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:45 pm

Oh I am so with you, we can be friends! I couldn't care less if people leave their coats on the back of the dining room chairs, if we keep the plastic cups on the counter where they're easy to find and to reach, and my toddlers' doll carriages are in any room you walk into. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, we live here.

As my kids are getting older, I am expending more time and energy into keeping my housekeeping standards higher as it really bothers them. Recently I "Instagramized" my playroom and my dd tells me, "now we're finally a normal family!"

amother

Seashell ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

Coats on couches and clutter on counter- so where do you sit? And where do you cook? Why can items not be put in their proper closet?
Also if your kids are used to dumping coats on couches and cups on counters then they will do so as guests- not appropriate.
There’s a middle way. Cleanliness and order are important. But not when taken to an extreme.
As for the clothing and elaborate menus- I agree- it is overdone

amother

Mintcream

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:16 pm

Maybe every family can just do what works for them, be happy about it and not be too concerned about what other people think. In my opinion, it is dysfunctional to be so busy cleaning all the time that children feel like they can't be children and just play etc. it is not dysfunctional for a home to look like it is lived in. Middle ground is important here. Children can learn to put things away without being extreme about it. Growing up, my mom would panic before anyone showed up at our house for fear they'd see a mess.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 2:09 pm

amother Seashell wrote:

You and all your friends are why I run around cleaning so that you don't ostracize our family. We sit where there is room. If there is a cost where you wanted to sit, you move it hang it up whatever. I have no problem cooking with cluttered counters, if I need room I make room. I do clean my house and things do get put away, my point is that it doesn't bother me until that happens.
My house and space is here to serve my family, I am not here to service my house.

zaq ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 2:22 pm

IMHO, if caring about what other people think is giving you terminal heartburn, you need to discipline yourself not to care about what other people think. Here are the facts as I see them:
1.Your personal standards are significantly looser than those of your neighbors.
2. The neighbors are not going to change their opinions and standards to suit you, no matter how passionately you lobby.
3. Trying to live up to their standards, or not trying but nevertheless resenting the social disapproval is making you crazy.
4. You are unwilling or unable to move to a community with more lenient standards, which is the solution most people would recommend.

All this being the case, you can do one of two things:
A. Stop resenting the prevailing standards and learn to accept and live up to them so that you can eliminate the social stigma under which you labor; or

B. Stop caring about social norms and community acceptance, continue marching to the beat of your individual drummer, and teach yourself and your children to value individuality over conformity.

amother

↑ Blonde

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 3:00 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

Um this thread is making me feel so much more dysfunctional actually. I wish my non instagram house would mean cups on the counter and coats on back of chairs...!!

Nah it's much worse than that, I just used that for relatable examples 😉

amother

↑ Seashell

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 4:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

Got it. You do it when you’re ready. But the kids should put things away too. And there is something to having a certain sense of responsibility. When they come home coats and briefcases should mot be thrown on the floor or couch. You finished playing with a toy- put it away.
Mom is not theone who should be doing it.
I don’t know what you call clutter or mess. Maybe it’s not alot. My hiuse is not spic and span. I can have laundry sitting in a basket near the couch . I have toys books magazines out. But things have aplace and are put away when not used.
No one is ostracized- but if kids don’t have manners and clean habits then yes it’s a problem with freinds having them over to play or come to such a house. And you feel it in school too.
As I said - extreme cleaning, is also not healthy. There is a middle way.
Sorry but I have a freind and family member who have reached a point where it’s impossible to walk into the house because the clutter doesn’t bother the mom. So yea this is an issue that bothers me.
I apologize. Did not mean to make you feel bad.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:25 pm

My kids are very well trained for others' homes. They know to follow the rules in whomevers homes they go to. They know to ask what to do with their coat and shoes. They know this because I model that when we go to others and because we talk about it before we go.
One of my friends is ostracized because of the state of her home and it breaks my heart. She is an amazing person but she just isn't on top of her housekeeping. I could easily be her but I'm socially with it to know that people do judge and they do care.
A messy house is considered dysfunctional. I remember during covid feeling so free because no one was coming into my house. I could focus on my kids and other priorities instead of constantly cleaning.

amother

Amaryllis

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 10:41 am

I'm not on Instagram so maybe I'm totally cluel. Do people really do housekeeping for their social image or do we do it for our selves and our family? We make beds, clear couches, and counters and tables. Hubby and I believe in hanging up coats and hats (although some kiddos are late to get that memo) . We do this because we believe those are household rules. Nothing to do with our neighbors. ..housekeeping skills come in all shapes and forms just like all other habits, children will be exposed to these different varieties if they are social people. My children have been in and spend time in homes that have very different housekeeping standards and that's OK as long as there is no danger.