11 yr. Son & Tzitzit Struggle

ShiningThrough ↓

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:05 am

My son, who's never had issues about wearing kipa and tzitzit, has lately been trying to 'get away with' not wearing them. If I notice that he didn't put them on in the morning I tell him to go upstairs and put them on before school. Sometimes he comes home with them in his backpack. He says it's too hot, and that not all the boys in his school wear them. Sad

Yesterday I was distraught to discover on the bus with him to Yerushalayim (Yerushalayim!) that he wasn't wearing them. I started to get naggy but then changed my tone, and I tried to stress how important it is to do mitzvot and that he's getting strong in so many ways as he grows up, but that taking off his tzitzit is a weakening, not a strengthening.

I also told DH about it and suggested that he learn with our son, on his level, about the mitzvah of tzitztit, to try to strenghthen him in a positive, not back-to-the-wall way.

Any Mothers out there who have had experience and luck with getting through this phase?

catonmylap

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:20 am

I'm very far from at that stage--so maybe I'm totally off---

1-I would be concerned that the other boys in the school don't always. I would look into the school policy & if they enforce it. And if they don't care, I would think my ds wasn't in the right school for our family.

2-I think boy's mitzvot fall under dh's jurisdiction. So, I think you are on the right track having your dh talk to him about it.

hila

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:27 am

I dont have that problem so much, as the school is pretty strict about Tsitsit and dress.

But I had problems till recently with minyan. He just did not go to Maariv (shacharit and Mincha was usually in school).

Suddenly - from the day he was barmitzva, he goes to Maariv. I just say - "it is 8:25" and he goes to shul. Usually one of us ahs to remind him, but he rarely says no.

I just hope this continues throuout his life. Of course it helps that he sees dh and db(dear brother??) going to Maariv.

Dress code in school is that ifyou want to layn or be shatz you have to wear long pants (not 3/4 as he likes) . He is really enjoying layning BH so we have to remind him on a monday or thursday that he is layning in school, that he has to put on long pants.

shalhevet ↓

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:41 am

catonmylap wrote:

I agree with this very strongly. At that age their friends start to have more influence than his family. He obviously didn't get this idea from home, which means he got the idea from friend/s that it's even an option not to wear tzitzis.

I would examine very carefully if he is in the right school for the chinuch you want to give him.

Tamiri ↓

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:53 am

My eldest, who is now 23 is the only one who gave us issues regarding wearing tzitzit (there are 4 other boys). Whether it was his environment or whatever - the bottom line is that as long as he lived under our roof, he had to conform to certain things, and one of them was wearing tzitzit. We reminded him over and over. It could have been a sensory issue, a hot issue - whatever. We expected him to wear them. Of course it wasn't 100% of the time, but you get the picture.
Fast forward to 18. He was sort of out of the house, at a mechina kdam tzvait. Religious environment, but who knows what he did or did not do. I would strongly bet that he did not wear tzitzit at all.
Then came the army. One day he asked "where are my army tzitzit". Seems he wanted to start wearing them "just for davening". We kept our mouths shut, found the tzitzit and gave them to him. He asked for a new pair here and there over the years.
After the army, he went to university. Totally out of the house. One day, we surprised him with a visit to his dorm. I saw something funny but didn't say a word. I asked my DH: what were those things hanging out of his shirt. Dh had not noticed.
And from then on (earlier this year), we have this kid with tzitzit hanging out. I don't know where or how that happened, or what else he's "getting into", but tzitzit hanging out is now a part of him.
Stick with it, OP!

BeershevaBubby ↓

Wed, May 28 2008, 5:58 am

What about taking him to Geula or the Shuk the next time you're both in Jerusalem and let him pick the type of Tzitzit he wants or will feel most comfortable wearing?

There's a guy in... Efrat I think... who makes tie-dye tzitzit (not the tzitz themselves of course).

↑ ShiningThrough

Wed, May 28 2008, 6:19 am

Wow, thanks for all these great responses!
I will start by calling the school to find out their policy on it (I'm almost positive it's chovah) and see if his teacher has any other ideas for boys that are temporarily losing interest in wearing them.
Thanks!

↑ shalhevet

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:05 pm

Motek wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

he got the idea from friend/s that it's even an option not to wear tzitzis.

in the thread about the husband who takes them off, you said it's not a halacha to wear them, so it seems you think it's a valid option not to wear them

The difference is that of course a boy/ man should be wearing tzitzis but if he isn't wearing a 4-cornered garment he isn't chayav midoiyrasa. It's a mitzva kiyyumis, like living in EY according to some opinions. A mother should be educating her son to doing mitzvos lechatchila, she should be on the watch out for bad influences etc. But a wife doesn't have a mitzva of chinuch to her husband (maybe hocheach tochi'ach, but that's not the same), so if her husband is not doing an actual aveira (or maybe sometimes if he is) she should check with a rav if she should say anything. Not only that, but the wife on the other thread said her husband sometimes takes off his tzitzis at home (ie he needs chizzuk), the boy here doesn't think it's part of being dressed anymore.

Last edited by shalhevet on Mon, Jun 16 2008, 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total

greenfire

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:20 pm

actually the same does apply to the son as a man ...

OP try to encourage him to wear the tzitzis for davening since that is the main mitzva - try to see if you can find him cooler ones so he is not so hot ... the less you make an issue of it - the less he will too ...

good luck !!!

↑ BeershevaBubby

Mon, Jun 16 2008, 12:39 am

Mommy3.5 wrote:

My boys prefer the t-shirt material tzitzit, they are a lot easier to keep neat, and are more comfortable. Also the mesh tzitzit are great, my brothers swear by them...

There are some who hold that the mesh tzitzit aren't valid because it's not a woven fabric. Nylon and polyester are basically plastic and I believe I've been told by several people that the mesh fabric is actually poured.

↑ Tamiri

Mon, Jun 16 2008, 3:03 am

greenfire wrote:

OP try to encourage him to wear the tzitzis for davening since that is the main mitzva -

Unless I am mistaken, Green, the mitzva is to wear them during daylight hours. U'reetem otam. You may be confusing tzitzit with a tallis. Some people wear them till after mincha (minimum) but it's day-time garb. Boys should be wearing them from when they get up till it's night.
However, I am not sure that Sfardi minhag is the same. There may be leniencies.

Imaonwheels

Mon, Jun 16 2008, 3:33 am

Four cornered beged d'oraisa is tzemer rachelim. Since others have been allowed you have to judge, according to school rules, where to push. The reshet ones are questionable in most opinions.

Don't be so sure about the school. I once tutored a special ed kid until his parents were advised by someone to take him out of the Chabad cheder and send him to a mamad that had a class for special ed. Basically he was in regular classes and had a portion of the day when he left the class to go to the special ed teacher. The parents were going nuts. The rabbonim wear tzitzis, are frum and want their talmidim to wear tzitzis. The problem is that the teaching method where theoretical disagreements and gradations in halacha are mixed in with practical halacha at an age when kids are not ready for it and not in an organized fashion. This child was in 3rd grade and all of a sudden learned that tzitzit were just a minhag. (Hear nose in the air disdain in my voice). Not all mamad, but some.

The enormous variances over the halachot of yishuv haaretz, shmiitta, al techanem, etc are barely touched and certain conclusions are taught as black and white with either no objection or by delegitimizing the objections. In the meantime whether kippa or tzitzit are really chayav take up an inordinate amount of class time. With such uncertainty is it surprising that kids take the easy way out.

The school is only serious if it refuses to admit to the school kids w/o tzitzit all the time.