Consequence for defiant behavior

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:00 pm

What is the best consequence for students who display defiant behavior when told to do classwork? I'm looking for an effective strategy to use with my behavioral students and would love to hear what people have done and used that worked. I'm talking about behavior where the student refuses to do her work no matter what I say ( and I am very calm and non-threatening when doing so).

TIA

amother

↑ Black

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The response I usually (always) get is " Because I don't want to!" and after the student will put her hands and head down on the ask and not do her work. And I know she knows how to do it... So it's not an issue that the work is too difficult for her.

No. You need to speak to the student one and one , outside of the classroom, and give her a chance to speak to you genuinely, if she wants to open up to you.

amother

Ruby

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Usually "I don't want to" means something else. There is always a reason behind a behavior and the reason will help you figure out how to deal with it

You need to explore and find out why the child is refusing. Is the work beyond the child's ability? Does the child have an undiagnosed learning disability? Is the child suffering from anxiety? Getting bullied? Not challenged enough? Needs a sensory break?

Regardless, it's so important not to get into a power struggle.

Check out this link too. Some great tips here. https://www.thepathway2success.....work/

I'm not a teacher, but a parent of a child who sometimes refuses to work in school.

Good luck!

amother

Olive

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have a rewards system where they get points for completing their work, that is why I am looking for a consequence because it does not always work.

My DS isn't in your class, right?

I don't think a consequence would work either, if a reward won't. When he doesn't want to do the work, he will decide or convince himself that the consequence doesn't bother him.

If I sit down and discuss the reasons behind his refusal, I discover that due to his pretty low frustration tolerance, SOMETHING is bothering him. Usually it's something I consider minor, but often it's fixable. He doesn't want to do it while sitting next to X, his favorite pencil isn't working. Sometimes it's a bigger issue, like that he wants it done perfectly and doesn't trust himself, or he is "taking revenge" because of something that went wrong earlier.

Whatever the underlying reason is, if I want DS to cooperate, I need to spend time finding out what's up so I can tailor my responses better.

If it's just not wanting to follow directions at all, I'd get the principal involved. But fear as a motivator should not be a first resort.

↑ Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

4th grade

Here is hoping you're not my daughter's teacher Smile

I asked her why she had 2 things not done, and she told me....because they were too easy and since her hand gets tired of writing (we have tried a few different OT tricks since 1st grade) why should she do words that she knows already?

That is definitely not an acceptable attitude in school, or the way to go about classroom decorum, but it gave me insight, and it's something I want to bring up when I talk with her teacher (again, I hope it's not you Wink

)

My husband and I told her that she needs to do the work anyway, and we can discuss if there is an issue in the curriculum.

But I mentioned the writing...another kid (not mine) that I saw often being sent to the office seemed to be "chutzpadik" till we finally caught on that writing was not easy for him, and OT was started. It was just easier for him to look macho and avoid work vs explaining his true shortcomings.

So there can be numerous reasons. I had another kid who avoided work if he didn't understand what to do. You'd be surprised who those kids might be. They might be smart but afraid they are tarnishing their image to admit that they don't understand: either the material or the expectation of the assignment.

4th grade is old enough to start tapping into their true reasonings. If it's not a writing issue, they should be able to fill out a simple 3 question sheet instead:
Why didn't you do your work?
What could you have done to make it that you would complete your work?
What will you do next time if you don't want to do your work?

Sample answers:
1. It was too easy
2. Do it anyway but with different color pens to make it fun
3. Explain to the teacher politely my feelings on that work so we can understand each other and make sure we are helping each other make the classroom succeed (ok, that might have to be done in conjunction with the teacher to work out something together, but you catch my drift)

↑ Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:00 pm

If they refuse to fill out said sheet (perhaps because of a writing weakness), you can ask them to go to the office with the paper and a slip explaining that you need someone to assist them in filling this out. They might need help formulating their thoughts or just writing what they dictate, but they should not be holding the class hostage or influencing other kids.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:02 pm

I would start by speaking to the administration to find out if there's any history that would be helpful for you to know about. Then speaking to the parents, and learning more about the student and what might be behind this behavior. An 8/9/10 year old is not out to get you, so the quickest way to get him on board is to figure out the cause of the behavior. If he isn't responding to rewards there's a good chance that consequences won't help either. They will just make him resentful on top of everything else.

creditcards ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have a rewards system where they get points for completing their work, that is why I am looking for a consequence because it does not always work.

I would be very upset if you would punish my child for not doing her work. If a reward system isn't working then punishment will not work either. The child may have focusing issues and doesn't even know why it's hard for her to do the work so she will answer I don't want to and not even know why. Even if she is capable of doing this work she might not be capable of doing it now. That happens a lot with ADHD.

amother

Mint ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:52 pm

Having a good reward system for that specific child could be very useful. Think what would work for her, it might have to be something additional to what the whole class has. She might have a little chart on her desk and you can give her a check every time she’s cooperating... you can have a point system with her or some motion that you do to show her she’s doing great....

Maybe she also needs a break card just for her that she can use once or twice a day. If she feels she needs it she can walk out for a minute or two, take a drink and come in....

Plan ahead with her in mind to motivate her to cooperate.

If a student doesn’t want to do the work she might need less examples or easier ones. Maybe tell her that if she’s working nicely than she only needs to do 5/10 examples....

If she’s not doing it and I feel like it was doable and she’s just doodling or not in the mood I might keep her in recess time. ( I hate the idea of it , but it usually works and they finish it in two minutes and go join the class for recess time. So they still get their break)

If a student is disrespectful or distrusting the class I give a think sheet. She needs to write what she did wrong and what she would do differently next time. If it happens again, it needs to be signed by the parent.

Hatzlacha. I’m upset your getting so many negative answers. Your an amazing teacher for reaching out and wanting to find new techniques to help all your students.

↑ creditcards

Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:02 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Can you send it home to be done for hw? Perhaps with a note to parent explaining that it's incomplete classwork.

Perhaps she needs easier class work. If my child brings home work to do at home in addition to homework I don't know what I would do with that. Homework itself is so overwhelming we don't need more and I don't think I would let her do it. She probably needs simpler easier class work even if it seems she can do it she obviously has difficulty with it for some reason.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 12:46 am

I know there was a thread once about not believing people who post about their jobs, etc. But I really AM a fourth grade teacher, too! Wink

Op, it is so frustrating to a teenager when students refuse to work.

It's also unrealistic to expect a teacher to begin to act like a therapist while handling the other 20 students in class. If you are able, speak to the student privately at recess.

I'm not perfect, but here are things I'd do with various students in various scenario, and depending on what is going on with the rest of the class:

*Just ignore the student. Let it go. (If it's infrequent and not disturbing others.))

*Ask them to tell me what's bothering them, in their seat, it'd in the hallway. (They usually don't say; next method is better:)

*Ask them to write me a note explaining why they are upset. (It might be something like, "Shprintzy is missing so much noise, I can't concentrate!" And then I can take it from there- have her work in hallway, switch seat, etc.)

* Tell them I expect them to do their work, because that's what we do in fourth grade, but they only have to do the first three questions, and then can the a break.

*(If it's been a hard day and student is being very difficult...)
"I'm sorry, but I need to see you working. Would you like to work in the principal's office?" ( HELP! here come all the irate mothers. I'm sorry. I'm human.)

As a mother and a teacher, I see students who won't perform for so many varied reasons, that like another poster said, ask "Why?"
It could be they are upset about something that happened with a different teacher or friend earlier in the day... Their stomach is hurting... They don't feel confident in their ability and need one on one explanation... So so many reasons!!!

Hatzlacha!

P.S. Charts may be helpful, but I find it difficult, as a teacher, to be on top of another program/system/incentive.