Difficult 10 year old

amother ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:54 am

Where to start?

My 10 year old is driving us crazy.

He is constantly bothering or annoying his younger siblings. I mean constantly. You can see him looking around for someone to bother. He teases, ridicules, etc. It starts within minutes of waking up.

He complains more than any of my other kids...about his clothing, his food, his activities, the umpires call in a little league game.

He hasn't picked up a siddur all summer, won't go to shut, gets dressed on shabbos only when he sees a guest walking in.

He hogs all of our attention, yells and is defiant, won't initiate play dates unless we trick him into having a friend call first.

I am at the point where I just can't stand him. I wish he would go away.

Does anyone have a child they just can't stand? What type of help can you get them? I am very wary of therapists because we tried one and he was a waste of time and money. Maybe there's a special type of therapist we can use?

Please help.

↑ Tamiri ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 9:36 am

Go to a neurologist or a child psychitrist/psychologist with an expertise in children/children with ADD. In Israel there is a test administered on a computer which gives clear indication in less than 3 hours as to whether the child is/isn't ADD. They child performs the test first medication free (also no caffeine, chocolate, cola, coffee in the system). Then, they give the child a dosage of Ritalin according to body weight and readminister the test. Results show if there is a difference in performance, and based on the results analyzation, you "know" if the kid isn't/is.
In the U.S., based on my description of my child (this was in NJ), the pediatrician prescribed and we never had to see an expert.
I'm not a proponent of meds. But MAN can they make a difference in the quality of life of the child and everyone around him. You want to know if it makes the child act normal? Well. My experience is that normal is what you described in your original post. The meds slow the child down, allow him to ignore "annoyances" such as siblings, focus and concentrate and just be calmer. You have to see how it works on yours, if it's decided he needs the meds.

mamalooshin

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 2:55 pm

OP, how does your son behave in other settings? Is he defiant at school, with friends, etc.?

The reason I'm asking is because you say that you can't stand him. If he's like this only at home, I would suggest that you take a parenting course. It takes two to tango, and I'm not saying that anything's your fault, but some parents don't know that they have to try to see things from a child's perspective. For example, if you're into having lots of company and are ignoring him - well, how do you think he feels? How would you feel if you were a child and being ignored? Or, for ex., if you were going on a long trip and you didn't bring along snacks or drinks, wouldn't you feel cranky and irritated? I'm not saying that you're a bad parent. I really do not know your situation. But it is possible that there is something that's bothering him and you're just not tuned into it.

And, then, of course, there's the criticism - a vicious cycle, of course. He acts up, you yell. He acts up again, you're extremely sarcastic or you roll your eyes or worse. I, of course, don't know this; I'm just guessing. Have you thought of "catching him in the act" when he's doing something good? When was the last time you praised him or hugged him or told him that you love him just because? You're the adult. You've got to be the one to start the positive ball rolling.

Please forgive me if I'm way off base. I just know, unfortunately, of so many stories where parents look for a way to label their kids and give them meds when in reality it's just a cop-out.

granolamom ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 3:37 pm

I agree with mamalooshin.
from what the OP wrote, I'm not sure why ppl are assuming its a case of adhd, which it may or may not be, but that's not what came to my mind.
what came to my mind was possibility of a misunderstood and frustrated child (maybe due to mismatch between kid/parent temperaments, personality or expectation) going through a rough patch with parents not knowing how to reach him. sometimes we get kids who havent read the parenting books and dont seem to respond to typical parenting techniques they way they 'should'. this doesnt always mean there is a 'disorder' or a 'cure' and I know (believe me I know!) how frustrating it can be.
so OP, first, make sure you have some respite from your kid. take good care of yourself. spend some low key relaxed time one on one with him or better yet, with dh and him. let go of the things that arent absolutely crucial to your relationship with him right now. the rest can come later when you are on more solid ground. so he doesnt go to shul. ok, he's only 10, no biggie. davening, the same.
start looking for the positive (catch him being good) and remark on how good he is to his sibs and try to ignore anything negative interactions short of abject violence.
and who cares if he doesnt initiate playdates. really not important in the scheme of life.
I know how it feels to feel like you cant stand your kid. when that happens its not the child who needs help, its your responsibility to work on that aspect of the relationship. find commonalities with him, do things with him that you both enjoy, find things you like about him write them down and look at it every morning. imagine he CV didnt come home one day, how would you feel? tap into that loss and then how you would feel when you found him. there's a million ways to help you feel more loving/positively towards your kid. find them, use them.
ime, these are the kids that teach you your life's lessons and you can become extremely close because of all the work you put into them. but its hard, so find some support for yourself.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 5:23 pm

Op here. I took a. Parenting class years ago, my other kids, all younger do not exhibit such behavior, my son annoys everyone. When he has a late night at camp my kids remark how calm and pleasant it is, like a vacation. As soon as he enters in to the dynamic, there is unrest. My daughter was sitting on the couch today and he shoved himself in just to annoy her. I calmly suggested he sit in the nearby armchair and his response is basically why should I, and whats going to happen if I don't. We've tried to implement chart systems, which he will sometimes do, but when he is in one of his moods he could care less and be destructive. I have many broken things iny home because of him. If I play catch with him outside while everyone else entertains themselves, he always complains when it is time to end or if I suggest letting a sibling join in the catch. We've radically changed our diet and that has helped, but not enough. His rages have toned down, but he is still chutzpadik and defiant on a lesser scale. One doctor believed he had pandas, as his titers were elevated. Zithromax did nothing during the year he was on it and trying different doses. I tend to believe there is an add type of thing going on. In school he had one bad year but in general he behaves better in front of other people. Even in non conflict situations he is annoying...like walking around talking in strange voices...he likes to hear himself talk in general. He takes no responsibility for himself, clothes on the floor, garbage left in a trail after himself. He is only happy when he gets what he wants, and as soon as there is something else he wants that cannot be met, his behavior totally reverts. Has a low frustration tolerance. If he loses his own belongings, such as a watch or yarmulke, he will carry on as if it is our fault and yell and scream...where is my xxxxx? He expects everyone to drop what they are doing and look for him. Often it is found by a family member in the very places we suggested he look.

I am just fed up with his behavior and so is the rest of the family. His grandparents have the same issue as we'll...when he and siblings go there to play, they say that he demands the most attention. His 4 year old sister can play nicely and he is the one who has to be entertained and starts to bother everyone when the attention shifts away from him.

I guess I just want to get treatment that will help him...I know there are a lot of branches of phsycology and I don't have the resources to waste my time on the wrong approach.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:11 pm

When you say strong handling, what do you mean. For example if I say we are all going somewhere, and he refuses, what would you suggest doing? Just leave him there? How can I force him short of dragging him out to the car at which he will physically attack us? Just an example and how would you handle that?

Or if he gets Ngry at the dinner choice one night and knocks over the kitchen garbage, how do you handle it? Do you ask him to clean it up, and when he won't, what do you do?

And when he takes a brook and threatens to hot you with it, and does, what do you do?

I can't enforce time out in a room because I can't ignore the rest of the family to hold the door, and if he does stay, it would mean things being thrown out the window or other destructive acts.

How would you handle enforcing the things you have zero tolerance on if there's not a way to enforce it? Or please suggest on ways to enforce for a defiant child who does not care about consequences.

Thanks

I sense that you feel disdain for me because how can a mother not be able to stand a child, but let me tell you, when a child little rips apart your family minute after minute, it is very hard to feel love for that kid. Please hold your judgements because it is a terrible nosy on, one that people on the outside often have no idea of what's going on inside when your child is like dr jelly and mr Hyde.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:31 pm

amother wrote:

Oh amother, I feel for you. I never reached the point you have with my chid because of other tragedies in my life. I totally understand and feel where you are coming from. I definitely don't judge you.

Before I could get my son under control I felt the world judged me a bad parent. I used to jokingly point out his sibling and say you can't blame the mother. I have rushed his sibling twice for emergency stitches.

My son used to throw his food at EVERY meal if he did not like the temperature.

The strong handling is hard. He has to know you are serious. One example was when he decided he wanted a lottery ticket and had a fit in a very large supermarket. He screamed and threw himself on the ground. I just sat on a bench with his sibling. I felt like a real jerk with everyone looking at me. However, several ladies came over to me and said what a great job I was doing.

Yocheved_G

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:35 pm

OP,

I strongly recommend that you read the book "Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers" by Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Mate. Check your library, or look it up on Amazon (you can even read a few pages online). I actually learned about this book from another poster on this site, happymom, from her blog, oceansofjoy, and I have found it to be nothing less than groundbreaking in terms of how important & unique this approach is compared to current child-raising ideaology.

Very much like what mamalooshin & granolamom said, the behavior you describe sounds like a situation where you do not have a "working attatchment" with your son. To quote the book, 'if you don't understand your child, you can't stand your child.

I don't have much time to write more right now, but if you want to know more about the philosophy of this book I would be happy to go into more detail. The hard part is that it puts the onus on the parents, but it really deals with the true root of the problem & gives you a methodology of how to establish/build the attachment that is the necessary foundation of successful parenting.

I hear your frustration and I wish you hatzlocha & siyata shamayim in working through this challenge & developing a warm, loving relationship with your son.

Last edited by Yocheved_G on Mon, Aug 17 2015, 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ granolamom ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:46 pm

amother wrote:

Also, to granola moms pint...I do not make a big deal about going to shut or initiating the play dates. The problem is that when he stays home all morning and afternoon he gets bored and does not know what to do with himself. Then he bothers people. When he has a friend to play with he acts normal and doesn't bother anyne

sorry for misunderstanding what you meant over there. I get it now.

btw, have you read 'the explosive child'? I found it very helpful with mine.
its hard to find what is at the root of all this misbehavior, it could be so many things or a combination. and I hear you about not wanting to waste resources barking up the wrong trees. we've wasted so much time/money on therapists who were unable to figure it out.
I wish you LOTS of stamina. and may G-d send you the help/guidance you need.

↑ granolamom ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 8:53 pm

amother wrote:

OP, take whatever judgments you feel and let them roll off your back. anyone who judges you hasant walked in your shoes, even if they had a similar situation they are not you and their children are not yours.

now, about this post...

your son obviously has a lot of pent up anger. my guess is that all this anger is leading to the annoying behaviors. what is working for mine is getting to the root of the anger and dealing with that, letting as much misbehavior as possible slide for now. as my child becomes less angry he is misbehaving less often and to a lesser degree so I am actually not having to discipline the misbehavior at all. it is going away on its own as I deal with the root of the anger.
now, your case may be totally different, maybe its anger masking another problem like anxiety, add, hearing loss, who knows what.
but I still think that taking a step back, finding your love for your child (no judgements, I've been there) and getting on his side will help you figure out the root of the problem. I know its hard because he is not a very good partner right now. but you've got to work with him, not against him.

and fwiw, I agree, you cannot implement a 'zero tolerance' system if you cannot enforce it. I cant enforce that either and you better believe I get plenty of ppl telling me that's my problem, that I 'allow' this misbehavior. if only they knew....

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Aug 19 2012, 9:38 pm

Hi OP,
Unfortunately, I could write your exact post down to the last detail except my ds is 6. And so many times I think that I just hate my child. It's horrible to think and horrible to write. My other children and terrorized by him and I totally understand the vacation when he's not around. From the minute he wakes up, he torments his siblings and us.

I have no advice, but I am reading this thread and unfortunately, you're not alone. Also, my kid has some issues, but I do not think add or adhd is the issue at all, though defiance certainly is.

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Aug 20 2012, 2:19 am

Thanks so much for all the responses an d support. I was feeling very down today.

It is true that I may be sensitive to feeling that others think I am a bad parent. I know family members think I just am not used to boys(my other kids are girls) or that he does not get enough attention (which is the exact opposite...he gets the most as we try to keep him busy and happy). And partly because how could any decent mother feel like she can't stand her child, so there's the self guilt too.

just reading your posts has given me the strength and resolve to want to start fresh tomorrow, to make him feel loved and at the same time stand firm on what we expect of him (basically if all he did was talk nicely I would be thrilled:) )

I have read the explosive child and thought it was good, described him well, but it is hard to have an insightful conversation with him...he either has little self awareness or is aware but won't discuss it candidly, so it's hard to have the conversations and discuss the root of the problem. He tends to lump in all his grievances and not want to focus on one problem to work out.

He definitely is angry. Is that coupled with add, I don't know. It's hard to know what's at the root of his anger as he does not discuss his feelings even when we try in anonconfrontational manner.

I will try to get the other books suggested.

Thanks!