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amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Today at 11:04 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

Because that's paid help and by that virtue you can expect them to do certain tasks, be available on a set schedule, etc. You can't have those expectations of a teen volunteer, or get resentful that she's not doing enough.

amother

Saddlebrown

Today at 11:06 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

Because that is a paid and available service. It's not dependent on finagling a system to try to have a 17/18 year old girl come and save you.

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Today at 11:06 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

I don't think it's about being treated well. It's more about seeing that the kollel life places an undue and unbalanced unburden on the woman.

I don’t think that’s true across the board. There are many caring husbands who do drop off and pickup and grocery shopping and help with everything in their free time and are even more available than men who work. And when they see it’s too much for their wife to work, they take over with that too etc

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Today at 11:09 am

amother NeonBlue wrote:

But in this story, the women were so overwhelmed that they were angry, resentful, and fighting over a volunteer they were relying on to keep things running. So clearly whatever help their husbands were giving them wasn't enough to keep them afloat. The one husband had no solutions other than hiring more help which they couldn't afford.

amother

↑ Steel

Today at 11:10 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Because that is a paid and available service. It's not dependent on finagling a system to try to have a 17/18 year old girl come and save you.

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Today at 11:11 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

People have to understand: having a large family is beautiful (I’m all for it), but the entire responsibility falls on you and your husband, the primary caretakers of your children. If you need paid help, get someone to sponsor it. If you can’t afford it and want your chessed girl who comes once/week to save you, there’s something wrong here.

I totally empathize with living in EY, away from your family, difficult pregnancies etc. but you made that choice

amother

↑ Tuberose

Today at 11:12 am

amother Steel wrote:

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

If it's hired and reliable and set each week ok. But when it relies on teen volunteers who won't always be available than, no. What about when seminary ends and the help stops? Then her system falls apart.

amother

↑ Seagreen

Today at 11:13 am

amother Steel wrote:

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

Then she should pay for it. Instead of stewing and being resentful.

amother

↑ NeonBlue

Today at 11:14 am

amother Steel wrote:

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

And what happens when the chessed girl invariably cancels?

joker

Today at 11:57 am

I thought the story really highlites how dysfunctional both homes were. If both grown adults are fighting over a once a week then their really not managing and I'm assuming their dropping more pieces than the story shows

amother

Plum

Today at 12:03 pm

I just can’t get over the entitlement.

amother

Dahlia

Today at 12:22 pm

In my experience, chessed girls were much more of a burden than a help. They show up when they feel like it, take only one or two the kids or go out for max an hour. Then they park themselves in your house (without helping) while you are trying to do supper and bath time. They expect supper (which means it needs to be a fancier/more decent supper than usual). ASk very often to come for Shabbos (with all their friends) and then don't lift a finger while there. I find chessed girls really hard to have and any time that I have taken a chessed girl I have regretted it.

↑ Chayalle

Today at 12:48 pm

amother Tuberose wrote:

Exactly, if the system is so precarious that the women's emotional/physical well being depends on teen volunteers, that's concerning.
Viewing the girls only as commodities and resenting them while wanting their help, that's entitled.
I didn't have sympathy for either woman in the story. Or the husband whose main help was suggesting his wife hire more cleaning help, when they can't afford it and it's only due to his wife being the breadwinner that he's even able to live this lifestyle.

I think it's important to remember that this is a work of fiction and if anything, represents a small minority of any system out there. I really doubt the vast majority of Kollel families living in Israel are depending on teen Chessed girls. I think it's a nice extra, if anything, and benefits both sides (I remember my Chessed family as giving me as much as I gave them. Like she was always sending me back with chocolate chip cookies...she made me feel like I had someone that year, she was also there for me.)

doodlesmom

Today at 12:54 pm

The only reason I understood The SIL, was that she was giving so much to her sem sil, and it was kind of a given that she will do all that for her, and be her home away from home. In that case chesed or not, she should have received some help from her sil.

Alternate Thursdays would probably be the right compromise.

amother

Dustypink

Today at 12:59 pm

I'm really surprised at some of these answers.

I could be Tirtza - I had 5 sisters who came over the years and I was the only sibling here but had cousins. It's expected that girls will go their siblings (brother or sister) and I'm sure Tirtza was even shocked she had to ask.

I'm the one who they came to straight from the airport with their suitcases (and some friends), I'm the one they called when they were lost/about hechsherim, I'm the one they called last minute when their shabbos plans fell through, I'm the one they came to almost every yom tov with friends, I'm the one whose couch they plopped on to complain about their roommates (always at bedtime here), I'm the one who they dropped in on to bake because they were in the mood of cookies, I'm the one they did their laundry by, I'm the one they sent their friends to when their friends wanted to Zoom home for a simcha, etc, etc, etc

It's NOT about the help. I actually didn't really need them even when I had only little kids and wouldn't rely on them anyway because they cancel so often for a tiyul/yom iyun/play practice/don't feel well. I get that seminary girls are allowed to be selfish and I almost never actually asked for anything back. BUT, if any of my sisters had gone to a cousin there's no way I would have provided the level of help and comfort I did without massive levels of resentment. At least try to pretend to give back in some way. Some of my cousins did actually go to random non-relatives to do chesed but they also didn't ask as much from me.

Again, it's NOT about the help, but it definitely is about the attitude. Don't take advantage of me.

amother

↑ Catmint

Today at 1:05 pm

In general when I read these double take stories, I read the first side and think wow what could the other side possibly say? And then I read the second side and see it’s more complicated. Except in this story. It’s such a given that siblings come first, I can’t even believe the cousin thought it was normal to ask. I’m shocked that anyone here thinks that a sibling doesn’t come first.

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