Double take-Helping hand

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:04 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

Because that's paid help and by that virtue you can expect them to do certain tasks, be available on a set schedule, etc. You can't have those expectations of a teen volunteer, or get resentful that she's not doing enough.

amother

Saddlebrown ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:06 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

Because that is a paid and available service. It's not dependent on finagling a system to try to have a 17/18 year old girl come and save you.

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:06 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

I don't think it's about being treated well. It's more about seeing that the kollel life places an undue and unbalanced unburden on the woman.

I don’t think that’s true across the board. There are many caring husbands who do drop off and pickup and grocery shopping and help with everything in their free time and are even more available than men who work. And when they see it’s too much for their wife to work, they take over with that too etc

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:09 am

amother NeonBlue wrote:

But in this story, the women were so overwhelmed that they were angry, resentful, and fighting over a volunteer they were relying on to keep things running. So clearly whatever help their husbands were giving them wasn't enough to keep them afloat. The one husband had no solutions other than hiring more help which they couldn't afford.

amother

↑ Steel

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:10 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Because that is a paid and available service. It's not dependent on finagling a system to try to have a 17/18 year old girl come and save you.

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:11 am

amother Steel wrote:

Why is it any different to relying on a cleaner/nanny/babysitter in order to cope with a large family

People have to understand: having a large family is beautiful (I’m all for it), but the entire responsibility falls on you and your husband, the primary caretakers of your children. If you need paid help, get someone to sponsor it. If you can’t afford it and want your chessed girl who comes once/week to save you, there’s something wrong here.

I totally empathize with living in EY, away from your family, difficult pregnancies etc. but you made that choice

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 11:12 am

amother Steel wrote:

IDK, if someone has a large family and a couple of hours help a week is all she needs to stay afloat, I would say she managing very well!

If it's hired and reliable and set each week ok. But when it relies on teen volunteers who won't always be available than, no. What about when seminary ends and the help stops? Then her system falls apart.

amother

Dahlia

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 12:22 pm

In my experience, chessed girls were much more of a burden than a help. They show up when they feel like it, take only one or two the kids or go out for max an hour. Then they park themselves in your house (without helping) while you are trying to do supper and bath time. They expect supper (which means it needs to be a fancier/more decent supper than usual). ASk very often to come for Shabbos (with all their friends) and then don't lift a finger while there. I find chessed girls really hard to have and any time that I have taken a chessed girl I have regretted it.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 12:48 pm

amother Tuberose wrote:

Exactly, if the system is so precarious that the women's emotional/physical well being depends on teen volunteers, that's concerning.
Viewing the girls only as commodities and resenting them while wanting their help, that's entitled.
I didn't have sympathy for either woman in the story. Or the husband whose main help was suggesting his wife hire more cleaning help, when they can't afford it and it's only due to his wife being the breadwinner that he's even able to live this lifestyle.

I think it's important to remember that this is a work of fiction and if anything, represents a small minority of any system out there. I really doubt the vast majority of Kollel families living in Israel are depending on teen Chessed girls. I think it's a nice extra, if anything, and benefits both sides (I remember my Chessed family as giving me as much as I gave them. Like she was always sending me back with chocolate chip cookies...she made me feel like I had someone that year, she was also there for me.)

doodlesmom

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 12:54 pm

The only reason I understood The SIL, was that she was giving so much to her sem sil, and it was kind of a given that she will do all that for her, and be her home away from home. In that case chesed or not, she should have received some help from her sil.

Alternate Thursdays would probably be the right compromise.

amother

Dustypink ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 12:59 pm

I'm really surprised at some of these answers.

I could be Tirtza - I had 5 sisters who came over the years and I was the only sibling here but had cousins. It's expected that girls will go their siblings (brother or sister) and I'm sure Tirtza was even shocked she had to ask.

I'm the one who they came to straight from the airport with their suitcases (and some friends), I'm the one they called when they were lost/about hechsherim, I'm the one they called last minute when their shabbos plans fell through, I'm the one they came to almost every yom tov with friends, I'm the one whose couch they plopped on to complain about their roommates (always at bedtime here), I'm the one who they dropped in on to bake because they were in the mood of cookies, I'm the one they did their laundry by, I'm the one they sent their friends to when their friends wanted to Zoom home for a simcha, etc, etc, etc

It's NOT about the help. I actually didn't really need them even when I had only little kids and wouldn't rely on them anyway because they cancel so often for a tiyul/yom iyun/play practice/don't feel well. I get that seminary girls are allowed to be selfish and I almost never actually asked for anything back. BUT, if any of my sisters had gone to a cousin there's no way I would have provided the level of help and comfort I did without massive levels of resentment. At least try to pretend to give back in some way. Some of my cousins did actually go to random non-relatives to do chesed but they also didn't ask as much from me.

Again, it's NOT about the help, but it definitely is about the attitude. Don't take advantage of me.

amother

↑ Catmint

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 1:05 pm

In general when I read these double take stories, I read the first side and think wow what could the other side possibly say? And then I read the second side and see it’s more complicated. Except in this story. It’s such a given that siblings come first, I can’t even believe the cousin thought it was normal to ask. I’m shocked that anyone here thinks that a sibling doesn’t come first.

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 2:17 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

Is a SIL a sibling? The story is about a SIL and a cousin.

esther7

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 2:18 pm

I know this is more of a side point...
But those posters saying that a few hrs a week can't make that much of a difference, when things aren't running functionally, I disagree.
Due to working, ages of my kids and scheduling, I was really struggling to be on top of all food related things this year. School snacks/lunches, suppers, shabbos cooking. The only time I had for it was with little kids home and it just wasn't working for me, they needed attention,ended up fighting etc. Supper was pasta and cheese if we were lucky Wink

Discussed it with DH, decided that he would change his schedule around to be available for 2 hrs on a Sunday morning to watch the kids, (he works on Sundays also) and I do a huge food prep session. Literally changed my life. Feel like things are so much more functional in the food department of life, which is really a big piece of running a family.
Yes,in my case DH and I worked it out between ourselves. Relying on free help isn't predictable etc.
But yes, a few hrs a week can literally make all the difference to a busy mother

amother

↑ Mayflower ↓

Sun, Nov 24 2024, 2:22 pm

esther7 wrote:

Of course having your DH on board is different to a flighty sem girl. It sounds like he was equally invested in making this work and that's why it is working out.