By collecting tzedaka you're raising everyone's standards!

amother

Peachpuff

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:15 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

I know someone who got everything from more than one organization. So she took a Bosch from from, a KitchenAid from the other, etc. I got married with none, and almost 9 years later I still have none. I use a cheap hand mixer. Same with food processor etc. when I heard how she "milked the system" it left me with a very bad taste. Technically I probably could have gotten from an organization. My father learns and my parents are always tight because officially they make too much to qualify for any government help. I paid for a lot of my own stuff when getting married. I was upset to hear how people use the organizations to get their hands on whatever they could

You did the right thing. The mishna states it is better to not take tzedakah in order to make [Shabbos] fancy. You should be proud and society should applaud you.

I agree with the OPs premise. The city where I live gives hachnosas kallah to the nth degree. While it's certainly beautiful, it does 100% raise the standards of the community.

So do seminary funds for seminary in Israel. Really, the wealthy girls should go to seminary because they can afford it. When the poor girls get to go to, the middle class asks why should we stay home? It's so sad to spend so much money on something that is so unnecessary for most people. And now that everyone wants to go, instead of just those who can afford it, it creates competition and rejection and hurt where there used to be none.

If you can't afford the luxuries, you should not get them. Seminary is a luxury. A bosch is a luxury. 900 thread count Egyptian cotton sheets are luxury.

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:17 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

Friend of mine has a gmach for chattanim and kallot. She and other gmach organizers come together and coordinate with each other so that milking the system won't be possible.

amother

Junglegreen

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:22 pm

As a grateful recipient of a chasuna gemach, we really appreciated the dishes etc. we were given. Huge chessed and we are so grateful. What made me uncomfortable was that when we declined furniture that we didn’t need and asked that the furniture go to someone who did need it, we got pressured by the gemach organizer to take it anyway.

To the organizers and people who arrange these amazing supports, what you do is wonderful, but if an applicant says they don’t need everything they are eligible for and would like it to go to someone else, there is literally no reason in the world to push them to take it. We were fine with our secondhand furniture. Still are.

ima22

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:35 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

I hugged and liked your post because I agreed with what you said just not how you said it

My motto is, if someone is desperate enough to be “begging” for something, which the Torah recognizes as embarrassing (as do most people), then they obviously need it for whatever reason. It’s important enough to them that they are willing to ask for handouts or accept them. I have no issue helping someone who needs something that badly, even if I don’t understand why it’s important to them

The only tzedaka I have an issue with (and still donate to) are the countless campaigns for widows and their families. People, especially parents, need to start being responsible and getting life insurance. It drives me crazy that so many people are too irresponsible to plan for their death and instead rely on charity from their communities that could otherwise be going towards other organizations or families, ones that couldn’t have so easily prevented needing those funds

Maybe more people could afford life insurance if they weren't struggling to provide all those things that we "need that badly". Alas the wants have become needs and the actual needs are not being met.

amother

Chestnut ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 2:55 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

If seminary is a luxury, Bais Medrash or Yeshiva Gedola for boys should also be considered a luxury. They cost about the same amount per year (don't believe me? look it up.), but boys go for 3+ years and girls go for one.

amother

Amaranthus ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 3:19 pm

Sorry but I still sleep on target brand sheets, don't have bedroom furniture sets (I have mattresses, no bedframe or headboard), don't have matching dressers- one at least was second hand I rented a truck to pick up.

It isn't nebby as no one should know what sheets you have! Or be in your bedroom to know your furniture status!
Why should people get fancy brand names when they won't last any longer? 2 different brands of plates don't last different amounts of time.

I believe in making sure families have dishes, socks, a shabbos outfit, basic food to eat etc.
But when we up it to 4 shabbos outfits, red meat, China dishes, Bosch mixers... then the middle class get squeezed and there isn't enough for everyone. Because the middle class now need help for these extras.

amother

DarkGray

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 3:29 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Friend of mine has a gmach for chattanim and kallot. She and other gmach organizers come together and coordinate with each other so that milking the system won't be possible.

We applied for help to pay for our chasuna. One of the questions was "are you receiving help from any other sources?"
We told them where else we applied not knowing how much we would actually receive.
Obviously they assume ppl will be truthful. People that feel the need to lie and cheat the system in order to get more help have mental health disorders or very bad middos.
Most people will not do that especially in the frum world.

jd1212 ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 4:18 pm

amother Pink wrote:

Even with life insurance - it takes some time until the families see the money and a million or two million dollars is often not enough for the family long term.

Op there was a letter in the Mishpacha about this recently and I do think we’d do well to re-examine “necessities”

No just tzedakahs. Every one of us at our own level. For example, I don’t wear clothing with prominent logos. BH we occasionally have money for a splurge- I’ll choose something that others won’t know the price.

I try to live my life low key and buy low key for my kids as well, so as not to raise the standard for ourselves and others

I’m a life insurance broker and just as a technical point, the money comes to beneficiaries in a week, and tax-free to boot.

About amounts, I agree. I advise families in their 20s/30s to buy 18x their gross income each parent to target have enough to support their families with 80% of their prior income until they would have been 65, which uses assumptions that the money will be invested to hopefully last longer, but also something for taking to account for inflation. $1,000,000 is gone in a blink for most breadwinners.

amother

↑ Chestnut

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 4:19 pm

jd1212 wrote:

Over the years we've had our utilities shut off, our cars repossessed, our kids threatened not to come back to school. The chances we'd have been able to make regular payments on life insurance consistently all this time is laughable. We're on Areivim but even that we're sometimes a few months behind.

↑ jd1212 ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 4:21 pm

amother Chestnut wrote:

I’m sorry- that sounds extremely difficult. Basic needs come first when there is literally no money, but under circumstances where a family is making ends meet, this is crucial.

amother

Midnight

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:41 pm

jd1212 wrote:

Not everyone qualifies for life insurance. My husband has been rejected by every life insurance policy since he was 20 years old because he has crohns and a liver disease (which doesn’t affect his life, just needs monitoring)

↑ jd1212 ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:46 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Yes, I’m acutely aware of this- advocating for people’s applications to be approved is a big part of my day-to-day work. However, most people, statistically, can be approved by a company. That’s not meant to belittle your husband chas v’shalom and it’s such a frustrating situation, but for most people, this is not applicable. It may be more expensive for many, but having even $250,000 is something over nothing.

amother

↑ Green

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:54 pm

When we were pregnant with our first, my husband got a million dollar plan for like $40/month.
But 20 year term. We couldn't afford more

Now, that plan is going to expire in the next few years. We still have very young kids. But guess what. My husband is 45. He has weight issues and apnea and other medical issues. Most plans refuse to accept him and those that do are charging around $400/month for a million dollar plan.
That's not affordable for us and a million dollars is nothing.

And we are nowhere near the only ones.

evi ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:14 pm

amother Burntblack wrote:

No need to be so sarcastic. No one was saying to stop doing chessed.

OP was pointing out that there is gray area-
- as to WHERE to draw the line
- and possibly some tzeddakah money not being allotted on an as-needed basis.

NO one was saying that camp simcha was not necessary for sick kids , or that chaveirim shouldn’t help people who are in a pinch. Or that people in hospitals should not have kosher food.

But when tzeddakah is used in a pampering way, maybe there can be some budget shifts.

Here are two THEORETICAL analogies : Since you mentioned Bikkur cholim - yes there should be kosher food. Now imagine if instead of their kitchens , they gave daily gift cards to a high end steakhouse .
Since you mentioned chaveirim - imagine if people were allowed to call the volunteers to help vacuum their cars because the crumbs were annoying.

Now, similar things with other organizations have been occurring.

I personally have seen brochures for hachnosas kallah literally giving luxury items . Of course hachnosas kallah is necessary. But how many thousands of dollars worth of jewelry is necessary. Does the linen need to be the highest of high end ? Does a chosson need his suit to be designer or can it be from a store where many middle of the road people buy their chosson suits.(Really the specifics that shocked me most I did not include because I don’t want it to be obvious which organization I am referring too. This is food for thought, not a call to publicly put down any individual or group. )

I agree there should be some limit, but I regret every time I bought cheap linen. Don't skimp on the linen. Very Happy

amother

↑ Crystal ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:22 pm

evi wrote:

I agree there should be some limit, but I regret every time I bought cheap linen. Don't skimp on the linen. Very Happy

How cheap? I have never bought the expensive linen. I last bought linen at least 10 years ago and I sleep on it still, just fine.

Can you elaborate on what I am missing?

↑ evi ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:22 pm

evi wrote:

I agree there should be some limit, but I regret every time I bought cheap linen. Don't skimp on the linen. Very Happy

Well maybe except the Amazon basics cotton fitted sheets.

I'm not saying go super high end - just noticed someone mentioned 900 count Egyptian cotton - but reasonably good quality is the only way to go. Unpaid plug for percale from www.thecompanystore.com

↑ evi ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:24 pm

amother Crystal wrote:

How cheap? I have never bought the expensive linen. I last bought linen at least 10 years ago and I sleep on it still, just fine.

Can you elaborate on what I am missing?

What do you consider cheap? Was it a polyester blend? If yes, that's what I mean and those are pretty bad at least in my experience.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:50 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

This. Why arent you taking the clothing?

Maybe if you took it, you could afford to send to camp. Its not tzedaka, its a perk of being a chinuch family. Mad

My husband just became a rebbi. I haven't heard of this program but believe me I will take whatever perks I can get. Yes I can buy an outfit before yomtov, but that means something else gets cut somewhere else during the year, even if I don't consciously say hey I'm cutting chicken done to once a week during week and only shabbos so I can buy yomtov clothing.
If you had free clothing before yomtov 2 times a year (don't know how many kids you have so can't make an exact estimate) you could probably afford to send at least one or 2 kids to a backyard daycamp.