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Twizzlers
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 Wed, Dec 17 2008, 2:20 pm
| ChSh wrote: | | Twizzlers wrote: | I married a yekke. We do not do upsherin, my 2 year old has had a handful of haircuts already (but the cute type without a yarmulka)
At age 3/when the child is trained, we will do a wimpel and a small party along with it. |
What's a "wimpel"?
The first time I saw it in this thread, I thought it was a typo for "simple"  |
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: |
A wimpel is the cloth used from the bris which in Minhag Ashkenaz (read: German/"Yekkish") shuls many times is later wrapped around the Torah, often by the bar mitzvah of the boy it was used for. |
HY, you almost got it  . at the baby's bris we wrap a peice of linen around the pillow and at the age of 3/when the child is trained we bring him to shul and he wraps that same piece of linen material (which has his hebrew name and dob and some other stuff painted/embroidered on it) around the torah. it is used again by the bar mitzva and again by the aufruf.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 2:58 pm
Ok, in my shul growing up, they didn't bother bringing it at 3, only at bar mitzvah (of course there are different minhagim even within Minhag Ashkenaz  )
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Twizzlers
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 3:57 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | | Ok, in my shul growing up, they didn't bother bringing it at 3, only at bar mitzvah (of course there are different minhagim even within Minhag Ashkenaz ) |
well, it would be nice to have another 11 years to get this thing done, but we have to have it ready in another 8 months (they are really expensive to get made so I'm considering doing it myself)
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mummiedearest
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 4:05 pm
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we're doing the haircutting at three cause he has such cute curls. no big party, probably just a family thing. if he's toilet trained by then he'll get tzitzis. plain and simple. oh, and I'll probably make aleph bais cookies. I love that minhag, I think it's beautiful.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 4:33 pm
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There is a minhag to make alef bais cookies? I know there is a minhag to teach alef bais, and use honey, and bring to cheder, and wrap in tallis, etc, but this is connected to teaching alef-bais at home?
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yo'ma
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 4:42 pm
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Why do you wrap the boy in a tallis. My satmar students told me they do it, so they won't see any non jews. They're wrapped every time they go out.
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Atali
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 4:44 pm
| yo'ma wrote: | | Why do you wrap the boy in a tallis. My satmar students told me they do it, so they won't see any non jews. They're wrapped every time they go out. |
IIRC it is so the boy will not see anything impure.
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mamacita
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 7:46 pm
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We are yekke so we'll do a wimple whenever he is potty trained, not specifically at 3. ds has already has had his haircut but I am letting it scraggle a bit more than I would if he was bigger since dh tends to get over zealous with the clippers
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mummiedearest
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Wed, Dec 17 2008, 7:51 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | | There is a minhag to make alef bais cookies? I know there is a minhag to teach alef bais, and use honey, and bring to cheder, and wrap in tallis, etc, but this is connected to teaching alef-bais at home? |
there is a minhag to give the boy some form of honey as aleph bais to make the words of Torah sweet. I think this applies to home teachings just as much as school. my son loves saying the first pasuk of shema before going to sleep, and I taught him that at home. (I just said it with him, he's so cute  ) I want that to be sweet for him. and he already knows the whole aleph bais, so it's no longer the school's responsibility. I still want to make him some honey cookies. I've heard of people tracing the letters in honey and letting the kid lick it off, but I'd rather not have to deal with cleaning honey off his face.
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Marion
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Thu, Dec 18 2008, 5:03 am
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Twizzlers...I thought the wimple was already used at the bris. So why do you have to make it now?
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Twizzlers
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Thu, Dec 18 2008, 12:31 pm
| Marion wrote: | | Twizzlers...I thought the wimple was already used at the bris. So why do you have to make it now? |
at the bris, we just use a huge peice of plain white material (almost like a tablecloth) for the wimpel, it has to be cut to the proper size so it can be wrapped around the torah, the edges sewn down, and the pasuk painted/embroidered on it.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 18 2008, 10:15 pm
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I'm Yekkish, but dh is Chassidish. Although we're both BTs. My parents never did the upsherin thing, but dh's did. Even though their frumkeit at the time extended to basically knowing they were Jewish and that's it, dh had an upsherin. So our boys will have one as well.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Fri, Dec 19 2008, 11:19 am
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It's interesting, because in South Africa I know upsherins are done by frum and non-frum alike. It's a Jewish thing to do, so they do it. Even if they don't keep Shabbos
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bbmom
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Fri, Dec 19 2008, 12:51 pm
I found this:
| Quote: | It isn't clear exactly when the custom of Upsherin started. The first mention of the custom is in Shar Hakavanot1 which was written by R' Chaim Vital (1443-1520), the Arizal's preeminent disciple. He describes how the Arizal went to the village of Miron on Lag B'Omer and participated in the “known Minhag” of upsherin. The Ridvaz (1462-1552) also writes2 that “it is already a custom in all the surrounding areas to consider [upsherin] as a full-fledged neder [mandatory vow]!”
There are those who say that the practice of upsherin is alluded to in the Jerusalem Talmud and Midrash.3
Footnotes
1. Inyan Pesach, Drush 12.
2. Shalot Utshuvot Ridvaz, vol. 2, ch. 608.
3. Tractate Pe'ah 1:4 and Midrash Tanchuma, Kedoshim 14 |
This would explain why the minhag is generally kept by sfardim and chassidim.
Stating that a Jewish minhag originated from Muslims based on the fact that Muslims do it to and some Jews don't is wrong. More likely that the Muslims adopted it from the Jews.
In any case, both the Arizal and R' Chaim Vital were tzadikim and if the Minhag is attributed to them we can be assured that it is an upright minhag and not chas veshalom something a bunch of ignorant Jews adopted from Muslims.
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