S/O HaShem gives number of children you can handle - source?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 2:46 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

The Ramban says (and is very well known) that a nisayon by definition is something we are capable of overcoming. Obviously it may be very difficult but within our capability to handle. So another way to look at it is as a vote of confidence from Hashem that I know you’re capable of and can overcome it.
Having too few or too many children probably falls under this category the same way too much or little money does.
Doesn’t mean handling the kids specifically but the challenge, so for some people have less kids than they want is their challenge.

Thanks - do you know where the Ramban discusses this? I'd love to see the original!

This also feels a bit different than the original comment though. Like, I have infertility and was only able to have 1 (living) child in 13 years, and that is something I had to handle. But that is different than saying I wouldn't be able to handle more children. Saying that I can handle a challenging situation doesn't imply that I couldn't handle the alternative (even if the alternative has its own challenges). They aren't direct opposites, I personally don't think we can extrapolate from one to the other. Just like if someone is poor, I don't think it implies that they couldn't handle having enough money to put food on their table. . .

If you have the original so I could see more, that would be great, even if it encompasses a different idea.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 2:51 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

https://he.m.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%94_%D7%9C%D7%93

About 10 lines down
Not about children specifically but life in general

Are you sure this is the correct place? I didn't see anything that seems relevant. Could you maybe copy paste here? It is possible that the link doesn't go to the exact spot.

amother

Papaya

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 3:36 pm

Success10 wrote:

You come out on the other side stronger. Maybe not right away, but in the long run....

Nope, this is definitely not true for everyone. Im not a stronger person because of the challeges hashem gave me. I actually dont have a relationship anymore with god because of the challenges. Not everynoe comes out stronger. Not even close..

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 9:33 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

everyone gets the opposite of what’s easy for them. We are here to work on our weakness not the strength.

Honestly, I'm tired of being told things that don't make sense. You say this but is it remotely true? Everyone gets the opposite of what's easy? To my eyes this isn't remotely true.

I think we try to make hashem into a fair, logical, and reasonable gd because it feels good to believe that is so. But unfortunately this isn't the case as we see it from this world.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 9:43 pm

amother Quince wrote:

I think of it as- you are capable of achieving through this what Hashem wanted you to achieve when He gave you this challenge. He gave it for you to respond a certain way and you have the power to respond that way.
That desired response could be anything, it doesn't have to look like what you or me would call "overcome".

And I can't know what Hashem wants of anyone else when He tests them, and I can only know that He wants me to do the best I can - in that moment- when He tests me!

What does it mean "achieving? What are the babies in Gaza meant to achieve? Why are people born with non functional limbs? What are they meant to achieve?

Do you have the slightest clue as to why hashem is testing you with....anything? Why some have have health, fertility, shidduchim...or any other nisoyon? There seems to be no rhyme or reason to anything in terms of us being able to understand.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 9:44 pm

Success10 wrote:

You come out on the other side stronger. Maybe not right away, but in the long run....

Again, you are attempting to make sense of things that don't make sense. Innocent good jews dying while doing chessed. There is no other side. People go hru life suffering. Not everything is a learning experience. For some people life is just sad.

salt

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 6:36 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Please show us the source because I personally thin that this sentence is just as silly as the one the OP was talking about.

I always thought this idea came from Avraham Avinu and his nisyonot.
a bit like what it's saying in the ramban here
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki.....D7%90

That Hashem will test people with nisyonot that He knows they can handle - doesn't necessarily mean many children.
It can be any nisayon - having few or no children is also a nisayon, if it's not what one wanted or was expecting.

I suppose this outlook can be hurtful, but it can also give strength, if someone really believes "I must be able to handle this challenge if this is what I was landed with" and therefore he pulls through with this in his mind more like "this nisayon must be for my own good".

amother

Pistachio

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 7:34 am

There was a Bitachon Magazine about this a few weeks ago. The author wrote that while we are capable of standing up to any nisayon we are given, what the actual test is may be different than what we think.
For example, my childhood trauma. I often think, Hashem, why did You destroy me like that? And why did you give me an (emotionally) ill husband who cannot function? Standing up to these challenges does NOT mean that I need to have the type of "normal" household that other people do, who don't have these challenges. It's possible that the entire test is simply to see if I can go through this while holding on to my belief that there is a Hashem and He has a plan for me. I don't know. I think that for some people, the only way to get through this world with some level of faith intact is to accept that there is a lot that we just won't understand while we're here, but that in the next world it will somehow make sense.
If Moshe and Shlomo couldn't understand it, we're in good company.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:34 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

What a strange system hashem has. So he tests us to see if we will get thru and survive. That's like saying he punches us in the face and throws us down the stairs.....to see if we can handle it. And if after getting punched in the face we say "I trust hashem punched me in the face for a reason', we pass the test.

So hashem makes someone a victim of zxual abuse so that they are messed up their whole life, can't get married or have children.....so that he sees how they handle it. Sounds awful. (Not to mention how is it even a test since hashem knows exactly how they will handle it since he's hashem. It's not really a test. A test is meant to determine an outcome. Hashem knows the outcome)

I think what happens is that we've been hearing these things since we were little kids we just accept it as hashem's "perfect masterplan". Which I guess it is. But if we take a step back I've come to realize that from the human mind that hashem gave me, it seems terrible and cruel.

amother

↑ OP

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:21 am

salt wrote:

Thanks for the source. This is still different than saying someone doesn't have more children because they can't handle more children. Just that Hashem tests tzadikim so they can be rewarded for their potential/intent to choose to do the right thing in the moment. But the focus here is on tzadikim, I wonder if or how it applies to the rest of us beinonim. I don't think we can compare Hashem giving Avraham the nisayon of infertility with Hashem giving average little me the same nisayon. And I certainly don't think the intent was to show that Avraham and Sarah couldn't have handled having more children. . .

amother

↑ Melon

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:33 am

amother OP wrote:

Didn't hashem know the outcome of the test before he gave Avrohom the test?

amother

Ecru

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 10:14 am

How about we simple get the kind of nisayon that’s meant for us .
Whether it’s 1 or 8 kids . That each neshama is here for a precise mission . And everything is accounted for. Parents/ siblings . Ages between siblings . What type of family each Neshama needs & how many siblings etc
This isn’t just about “ how many kids “ it’s about an entire large picture of circumstances & events that come together .
I am saying this as someone, who went trough sif & then had more children. And as painful as it was, I can see how I grew from that nisayon.
We aren’t here just to have a life that’s Carbon copy to everyone else . We are each here traveling w/ a group of souls & are here on a specific mission . Most nisayons aren’t just what they are in themselves, but are there more to shape what kind of human beings we come out on the other side .
So yes for whatever reason, some souls are here to bring only 1 into the world and some 8.
It isn’t about what “ can be handled “ but what your Neshama “ needs to handle “ on its mission .

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 10:38 am

I don't know a source offhand but I have learned that Hashem gives everyone the tools they need to accompany a nisayon. So it's not about if you can handle it or not, but about your ability to choose to access the tools that He provided to help you get through it.
That can mean that He placed you in a community that has an organization to give respite to parents with SN kids. It's up to you to avail yourself of that help if you have a kid with special needs, so you have some time to recharge and be a calmer parent because maybe your nisayon is to be able to keep calm and not lose patience often (meaning the difficult circumstances you're in with are just the packaging for the true thing you should be working on and those circumstances come with ways to be able to find yourself able to pass the test.... We rarely know what the true test is.)