Why don't most frum jews do 4th of july?

amother

↑ Burlywood

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

calm down. there's no judgment. it's the opposite of judgment. it's interesting to hear all the different perspectives from frum women from all sorts of different backgrounds. all the different responses on here are very interesting and nobody is wrong or right.

I couldn't care less if other frum jews do BBQs or fireworks other than that it'd be fun for our family to have more frum jews -- rather than fewer frum jews -- getting together on the 4th for kosher BBQs while we have the day off anyway.

for us personally, my husband and I both grew up doing the 4th. BBQs and fireworks are fun, and it's not that much work and we have the day off anyway. the message of the 4th is a good message and a good message to teach the kids. america today is far from perfect, but other than israel, it's been perhaps the best nation for humanity -- and for the jews -- in the history of the world. plus, celebrating the 4th takes nothing away from our ability to be good jews and celebrate the jewish holidays. so why not?

but if other frum jews feel differently, it's no big deal. I don't you're some treasonous american if you choose not to have a BBQ on the 4th. seems like there are various reasons not to celebrate it, and it's all good.

As much as I appreciate your advice in what to teach my children, I think I'll pass.
As I said, it's not about taking away from Jewish holidays. It's not a very relevant holiday and personally, I like to teach my kids that we don't must party at every available opportunity.
We're grateful to America in so many ways, frankly the government makes sure of that. No need to designate a special day and rejoice for something that has no real meaning for me.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:10 pm

amother Burlywood wrote:

As much as I appreciate your advice in what to teach my children, I think I'll pass.

are you just looking to fight with people on the internet? I said "for us personally" and described why we celebrate the 4th. there's no parenting advice for anyone else. I'm not sure why you're looking to fight. calm down!

amother

Strawberry

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:24 pm

My husband works on legal weekday holidays so he can take off chol Hamoed and fast days. Does that answer your question? We did visit my parents today for a BBQ but it was more because my mother worked from home to avoid the traffic and I thought it was a good time. We never celebrated July 4th growing up. Although I have a child who was born July 5th thanks to a July 4th bbq....

amother

↑ Apricot

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

lol I don’t think she even really read what you wrote.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:45 pm

DrMom wrote:

I think it's nice to acknowledge that the US and the ideals embodied in the Constitution have enabled the religious freedom that have made the US a safe haven for Jews.

BTW, acknowledging/celebrating does not have to = bbq.

of course it doesnt have to = bbq. but bbq and fireworks are more than just meat on a grill and TNT exploding. they're american traditions, and traditions are an important part of a culture and a nation. (interestingly, israelis seem to have embraced bbqs and fireworks for yom haatzmaut.)

people can acknowledge and celebrate thanksgiving (which really is a holiday about giving thanks to hashem) without a turkey dinner. but, again, it's more than just eating turkey (which most people don't even particularly like... there's a reason almost nobody buys whole turkeys the other 364 days of the year). it's the tradition.

↑ giftedmom ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:27 am

amother OP wrote:

this doesn't really answer the question. for you and the people thumbs upping this: is it more that you don't have time for secular american holidays / not care enough to make a big deal about them? or is it more that you hold that it's not jewish to celebrate secular american holidays? again, just trying to understand - no judgment. your answer just isn't clear and helpful.

It’s that they don’t pertain to us. We have our own traditions. We don’t do American traditions. Clear enough?

Notsobusy

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I can only speak for myself and the my family, we have so many other holidays and simchas, we just don't have the time or interest to celebrate again. We do go watch the local fireworks show most years, here in Lakewood it's always full of frum Jews.

↑ giftedmom

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:55 am

amother OP wrote:

Well said, and our traditions are Jewish traditions, not American ones. We have our own culture. We are not part of American culture.

amother

DarkMagenta

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:10 am

amother OP wrote:

people who work in the secular world often do have off on all the US federal holidays - whether they like it or not - and have no ability to work those days so they can take off the jewish holidays. obviously this isn't always the case, for example a solo practitioner lawyer or accountant doesn't have the same constraints as someone who works at a company. but for frum jews who work for a company in the secular world, if the company is closed, its closed and it's a day off whether you like it or not.

what's naive is to think that people who work in the secular world can just work on the US federal holidays to make up for all the yom tovs they have to take off.

I don't think MO is better. MO vs haredi is just different in terms of lifestyle stuff like the calendar people live by (e.g., getting off kol hamoed vs getting off secular holidays) just because of who their employers typically are.

Not naive at all. In today's work environment, setting your own hours and schedule as long as you complete your quota is not uncommon, EVEN in the secular world.

What's naive is thinking that yeshivish ppl must not be working for secular companies (or frum-owned companies that service the secular world) and therefor all had a regular workday today.

Come visit the Lakewood business sector one day. What you see may shock you.

amother

Mintcream

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:21 am

We celebrate. My grandparents were veterans, fought as part of the US troops in world War II and were proud to be American. They were also Jews and helped liberate their brothers and sisters from Nazis. It's interesting how people put being a Jew before being an American. Were both Jews and American so yes, July 4th is a thing for us and so are all the Jewish holidays. One doesn't take away from the other.

amother

DarkPurple

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 2:01 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

This is actually the opposite of what the Rebbe stood for.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe ( quoting John Adams) said that "It is well to remember that the Founders of this Nation considered Independence Day as " a day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to G-d Al-mighty" ".

amother

Holly ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:21 am

scintilla wrote:

I don't see the reason for celebrations, I don't do Thanksgiving either. Yes I'm grateful for America and the freedoms it has granted our people but it's Hashem that made it be that way, not the founding fathers. I don't celebrate it with my kids either because I don't want to send the message that this is something important. You want to express hakaras hatov, great, I think that's important too, so I pay my taxes and I'm a law abiding citizen. I respect the country of America but I don't feel that its existence is something for me to celebrate.

There are many times as a Jew where we have sources in Torah for a time to celebrate and those I do. Others seem to me to be chukas hagoyim (literally,for a federal holiday;).

I don't judge anyone who does celebrate it fyi. Just trying to clarify why I don't.

Based on the bolded, why would you ever thank anyone for anything? If a person helps you, it's really coming from hashem so why say thank you to the person?

amother

↑ Holly

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:27 am

I wonder among the people "celebrating" July 4th with fireworks, getting drunk, stuffing their face with hotdogs, how many even stop for a second to think about the freedoms America offers? Probably very few.

I think on our yomim tovim we talk about the importance of the day. We just had shevious were we learned about matan torah. Before that was pesach where much of the seder discusses yetzias mitsrayim.

I think the freedoms associated with July 4th are dwarfed by hotdogs and partying.

amother

↑ Blueberry ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:28 am

amother OP wrote:

Oh sweetie you must get out more. In modern day times you have work to finish by x time and no on cares which day you do it on. You really do live in a bubble. I’m laughing so hard. I and all my colleagues do exactly that in the secular world. I find it hard to believe that you never came across this work model. You can’t possibly live under a rock with your mo lifestyle.

amother

Ballota

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:39 am

amother Blueberry wrote:

This has to be the most condescending post I’ve ever read here.