Share your opinion without bashing please...

↑ giselle ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:07 am

leah233 wrote:

A lot of this conversation is based on where in Lakewood you live.

I live in the largest housing developments in Lakewood(Westgate). The population there equals or is bigger than the frum population of the entire Detroit. With all the complaints people have about Westgate, people living there being materialistic is certainly NOT one of them.

In a general sense based on my experience Yeshivish people fall into one of four categories

(1)Absolute Tzadikim and Tzidkonyis whose lives are almost exclusively motived by right vs. wrong. They are looking to do what Hashem wants and whatever is right under the circumstances no matter what the sacrifice required is. If this is the right way to act or live they will do it. No if and or buts

(2)wannabe (1) but they aren't at that level

(3)people who are ambivalent. On the one hand they respect and identify with the values and ideals of group (1) On the other hand there are other things that speak to them too. Plus their life experience has frequently shown them that they have no realistic ability of being exclusively in group (1) for the time being

(4)People who grew up Yeshivish but wish they didn't. They are frequently bitter and cynical towards the ideals of the Yeshivish world. Like any system or society the Yeshivish world has its shares of downsides and situation where the ideals don't match the reality . These people love to focus on those situations in a non constructive manner .

I'm very over generalizing with the above.

I would assume people who fall into (4) are no longer yeshivish. Btw I was raised more yeshivish than I am now, and I’m not bitter at all. Sometimes a little cynical about real problems within the system that I’ve seen first hand that are really detrimental and the opposite of the values yeshivish people claim to have.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:07 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

I just buy cheap and hope it lasts. Most of the time it does. If it doesn't, I buy something a little more expensive, and it usually does last. Maybe I just have lower standards about what is considered lasting.

One of my sons thought that he could save money by buying school sneakers for the kids for approximately $11 at Walmart, only to find out that they only lasted a month.
How many cheap cars last more than ten years?
I have lost track of the number of cheap pots and pans that I have thrown away.
OTOH, I bought clothes from Kmart that lasted for years.

↑ giselle ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:14 am

southernbubby wrote:

It’s very trendy now to buy things from places like Primark, Shein, Ali, etc. Probably junk, but I think it’s nice for people who like getting new things often. People who dress well have no problem shopping at these stores/sites.

ETA I have friends who have shopped at expensive designer stores and have since started buying from above mentioned places and are quite proud of it.

Last edited by giselle on Thu, May 30 2019, 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ leah233

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:14 am

giselle wrote:

Correct.

On imamother that group is going to have a much larger percent than in a random group of those who grew up Yeshivish.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:17 am

southernbubby wrote:

At the same time, expensive things can also break. It depends on if it's really quality or not.

I bought a cuisinart hand mixer last year, and to my disappointment the motor broke down within a few months (they sent me a new one, but I'm not sure it will be better quality than the first one). I would've thought it would last longer than an off-brand, cheaper mixer.

I don't know if those $100 shoes from frum stores are the greatest quality, either.

I bought DD a pair of Shabbos shoes from Zara for 19.99 last year. They lasted beautifully all winter, and then got passed down to a cousin.

↑ giselle

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:20 am

Chayalle wrote:

Those shoes are definitely not better quality. They shabbos ones are worn once a week and barely last through a season. I do like that their leather though, which I find more comfortable.

amother

↑ Aquamarine

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:24 am

It doesn't always work. My cheap lawnmower just died after only a few years.
Pots mostly work. But than again, I still use pots with missing/broken handles. I'm considering buying new one
My clothes usually last many years (weekday shirts 3-5 dollars etc... They are not exactly fashionable but they last and I like them). My second hand Ikea bookcases sag, but still hold heavy seforim. My cheap appliances seem to last. I'm not saying that it always works, but it mostly does. My husband drove a 1995 car that he bought old until a few years ago when it wasn't worth to fix it. Though to be fair, our next car was a newer used car because we wanted more safety features.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:26 am

giselle wrote:

The environmentalists would be horrified. Fast fashion is fun but after a season or two ends up in the landfill because it has no resale value in consignment and thrift stores.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:26 am

giselle wrote:

Those shoes are definitely not better quality. They shabbos ones are worn once a week and barely last through a season. I do like that their leather though, which I find more comfortable.

I think some kids are harder on their shoes than others. But for Shabbos shoes worn once a week, $100 per pair does not seem cost-effective. Even if they weren't quality, many kids could get thru the season with something less expensive.

Also, kids are probably harder on their summer Shabbos shoes. They are spending more time outdoors, etc...

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

I wouldn't spend $100 on kids shoes but DH and I both have foot problems and spent more than that on specially fitted shoes. It could be that if I really shop around, I can find something similar for cheaper but sometimes it doesn't really come out cheaper if a $100 pair lasts a year or a $50 pair lasts 6 months.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:40 am

southernbubby wrote:

Apples and bananas. Kids feet grow with the season, so as long as you can get thru the season on a pair of shoes, you don't need to spend more to make it last to the next season.

My teens will wear a pair of shoes out, because her feet have stopped growing. My 11 year old sometimes outgrows a pair of shoes. So I try to find cheaper ones for her (her current Shabbos shoes were under $20 at Nordstrom Rack.)

amother

↑ Cyan

Thu, May 30 2019, 10:54 am

southernbubby wrote:

Those who support Torah study often do so by offering discounts on goods and services to Kollel families.
In Chabad, there are similar discounts for shluchim.
If it is being abused or causing major losses of money, then it gets discontinued.
When my kids were little, our pediatrician gave professional courtesy to physicians' families until a large contingent of his patients were physicians' families and he had to stop.

thats a beautiful way to help those in kollel. if a grocery or clothing store- offers discounted merchandise to kolel familes. its generally assumed that the owner will swallow the cost as his donation.

The problm is when they raise the price for others to swallow these expenses- especially when others are struggling to pay for camp.

as I said before- I wish I didnt see that post I was quoting- its just plain upsetting

your example of physicians coutsey is completely diferent altogether.

↑ southernbubby

Thu, May 30 2019, 11:05 am

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

If the store charges the public more so that it can offer Kollel families a discount, then the public shares in the support of the learning families. By the same token, if taxpayers are supporting the Kollel families, they also have a share of the mitzvah.
The public, however, often forgets that they do often have other options.

daagahminayin

Thu, May 30 2019, 11:06 am

Chayalle wrote:

I'm a Kollel wife for over 20 years.

If you would take any Gvir from the 1800's and bring him into my home, I'm pretty sure he'd say I haven't sacrificed anything.

I have nice showers with hot running water available at all times (well, most of the time...sometimes on a winter Friday we need to space out our showers a bit.) I have indoor bathroom facilities.

I have refrigeration and freezers for my food. I have fresh vegetables and fruit, and I can afford to feed my family adequately (OK, we don't spend money on steaks, but chicken cutlets and meatballs can probably be deemed luxuries by once-upon-a-time standards). I drink an outrageous decalf every morning (Nescafe instant, with 2 teaspoons of sugar and MILK - unheard of by some.)

Each of my children have more than one Shabbos outfit and several sets for weekdays (interestingly, I think the uniforms are the most expensive. $30 a sweater for my 5th grader. Even the one I bought her from Zaras for Sundays was only $14.99 on sale). Most of them were bought at half price (or better) sales for last year's designer clothes. None of them are torn or stained (I hope. No promises for my very lively youngest, or even my sports-inclined teen...)

I have heat and air conditioning. I have a washing machine AND a dryer (no boiled pots and kneeling at the riverbank for me.)

I have more living space than my ancestors ever dreamed of. I have a comfortable (18-year-old) couch in my living room. I have beds for each family member (no straw tickings) and clean linen (see line about indoor laundry facilities).

I own electrical appliances like a food processor (grinds my potato kugel for me every friday!) and a Magic Mill (I haven't bought Challah at a bakery in about 20 years, and I bake my own cake and cookies). I have an oven that turns on with just the press of a button. I own an electric iron, and I even have a waffle maker.

I have a (12-year-old) car (that still works) that also has heat and air conditioning, and gets me around town (and beyond) in unimaginable comfort.

With these and other luxuries of today, what schar can I possibly get after 120?

I just love this post! Thank you for reminding me to be grateful!

naturalmom5 ↓

Thu, May 30 2019, 11:53 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Why not hobbies, activities, chesed, lots of meaningful way to fill time? For the boys I would add sports with good guidelines.

All those things you mentioned look and scream
Secular

You need to buy clothes BUY NICE
You need a place to live ...might as well add to your investment
You need to feed your family
MIGHT AS WELL DO IT RIGHT
YOU NEED to need to make a wedding
GO ALL THE WAY... REMEMBER the old Journeys song
Etc......