$300k IS NOT ENOUGH!!

amother

↑ Daphne ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:16 pm

RM3 wrote:

Not disagreeing with anything you’re saying but if you have $24k in medical expenses then you shouldn’t get taxed on the full $300k. You should have an HSA account so $24k is spent pre-tax.

If it’s coming out of her paycheck, she’s not being taxed on it (and savings are minimal- you’re talking about whatever taxes she’d get back on 24k, that’s really a minimal amount)

You’re proving her point: 300k is tight. Nickling and diming taxes on health insurance, or maaser, shouldn’t be happening at 300k but reality check, it is happening bec 300k is tight if you have over 4 kids.

↑ RM3 ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:17 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Would you consider asking if you are halachically required to give maaser? My income is much lower, less then 100K and we're a household of 3. We keep asking because it feel wrong, but we were told that if maaser is not meant to leave a hole in your pocket.

Nothing is meant to leave a hole in your pocket. Why is Maaser the first on the chopping block?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:18 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

Maaser comes after everything else. You need to figure out all of your basic life necessities, which I’d say includes a number of the things listed at the bottom, and then calculate your maaser off of what remains. If you truly cannot reduce other expenses, your Maaser should probably only be around $2000 a year.

Also 2k a month for medical is crazy high, speaking as someone in a family of heavy medical customers. I’d look into a better insurance plan.

A significant portion of our maaser goes toward paying a crucial therapy for one of our children. Also, not every rav agrees that maaser should only be taken from what’s left over. Regardless, we personally have no reason to reduce our maaser because our income is significantly growing BH.

$2k month for medical expenses is not high at all. Do you have any idea how much premiums and deductibles are? Are you aware that dental check ups, cavities, braces, eyeglasses , and more are not covered by medical insurance?

Are you aware that not every employer offers HSA accounts?

Regarding deductions, we do usually receive a tax refund of about $8k - $10k.

amother

Cornsilk ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:18 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

In that case, almost nobody should be giving maaser. And then we can say goodbye to the tremendous amount of chesed we have in our communities.

Hashem promises to reimburse us for tzedakah. That's the most reliable investment you can ever have.

While difficult, some of the other expenses can probably be cut down some, but I don't think maaser is the first place to start.

(OP, can you consider selling one of your cars and getting electric? It might make financial sense if there is that much commuting.)

amother

Brickred ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:18 pm

Op, I feel you. It’s really hard these days.
And to all those saying 60k mortgage is high, you must be living oot.
My mortgage is close to 100k annually, in Brooklyn. We bought a year and a half ago. My mortgage is a bit above $1.1M - that’s not considered a large mortgage for Brooklyn these days.

↑ RM3

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:20 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

If it’s coming out of her paycheck, she’s not being taxed on it (and savings are minimal- you’re talking about whatever taxes she’d get back on 24k, that’s really a minimal amount)

You’re proving her point: 300k is tight. Buckling and diming taxes on health insurance, or maaser, shouldn’t be happening at 300k but reality check, it is happening bec 300k is tight if you have over 4 kids.

100% that’s why I prefaced with that I’m not disagreeing with anything she’s saying.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:20 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

If it’s coming out of her paycheck, she’s not being taxed on it (and savings are minimal- you’re talking about whatever taxes she’d get back on 24k, that’s really a minimal amount)

You’re proving her point: 300k is tight. Buckling and diming taxes on health insurance, or maaser, shouldn’t be happening at 300k but reality check, it is happening bec 300k is tight if you have over 4 kids.

Insurance premiums and medical expenses for family of 8 is not particularly high and a high deductible plan is not going to save much money.

Even a good insurance plan through an employer will have a premium. And with 6 children there will be normal childhood sicknesses; prescriptions; glasses possibly, dental visits - all of which can easily add up to $2000 per month.

amother

Coral ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:25 pm

RM3 wrote:

Assuming $800k House, 6.5% interest rate, and 12k property Tax.
That would be over $60k annual payments. Which of these 3 assumptions do you think is high?

Don't buy an $800K house
Why the heck should that be the norm?
OOT you can get a nice house for half that amount.

amother

↑ Cornsilk ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:26 pm

amother Coral wrote:

Don't buy an $800K house
Why the heck should that be the norm?
OOT you can get a nice house for half that amount.

And the salary there is also often half that amount...

amother

Chestnut ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:27 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

Op, I feel you. It’s really hard these days.
And to all those saying 60k mortgage is high, you must be living oot.
My mortgage is close to 100k annually, in Brooklyn. We bought a year and a half ago, and put down close to a million dollars (after closing fees, taxes, down payment etc). My mortgage is a bit above $1.1M - that’s not considered a large mortgage for Brooklyn these days.

You bought a 2 million dollar house and think that's average? Sorry it's not. Even in Brooklyn.

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:27 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

Uh. No thanks. Guess you're not worried about your s'char v'onesh. The idea that maaser would come after anything that is not an absolute basic necessity is absolutely, positively wrong. And an 800K house is not a necessity.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:28 pm

amother Coral wrote:

Don't buy an $800K house
Why the heck should that be the norm?
OOT you can get a nice house for half that amount.

You can't get a house - let alone a "nice" house in most locations - especially locations in which frum people live.

In some places you can't get a nice house in any decent neighborhood - frum or secular for that amount or even more.

I am in Los Angeles and starter homes anywhere (not just frum) are in excess of $1 million dollars and that would be for a small home - maybe an older bungalow type of about 1200 square feet.

amother

Snowflake

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:29 pm

My numbers are different but the math is similar..I bought oot pre covid bh pretty small mortgage..but my salary also is about half what it was when I was living in NY .. groceries are more expensive here. I do most of my shopping in Walmart/ Aldi but cy products meat etc..prices are crazy!!
It's really tough

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:30 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

Agree 100% about maaser. And one of our cars is already a hybrid.

amother

Fern ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

How is therapy covered by maaser?

We make significantly less and these numbers are so scary.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:33 pm

cupcake123 wrote:

This is not personal to you OP because you didn't say it but can't beleive anyone earning 300k would chop maaser.
You spend on food a nice amount as well as cars and camp....

We dont chop maaser at all. We don’t spend a lot on camp, $2k per kid is literally the bare minimum when you have 2 working parents.

We also don’t spend a lot on cars! We own them outright, bought used. $300/month for gas (one of us commutes), $200/insurnace. The $500/month barely covers repairs and maintenance.

$2k/ month on food is definitely more than just rice and beans yes, but for a family of 8, I have to be very careful in the grocery when I shop.

Also, did you read the list of all the very real annd necessary expenses I DIDN’T cover in my expense list??

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:35 pm

amother Fern wrote:

How is therapy covered by maaser?

We make significantly less and these numbers are so scary.

We would not be able to afford the therapy otherwise so we have no choice. We use a “loophole”, we pay for another family’s kids therapy and they pay for our child.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:38 pm

amother Chestnut wrote:

You bought a 2 million dollar house and think that's average? Sorry it's not. Even in Brooklyn.

Not sure what you mean by average.

I checked my childhood neighborhood in Midwood and the least expensive listing is $1,700,000. These are not "fancy" homes but are the homes that middle class people lived in when I was a child. Single family homes built before WW II although many were built prior to WW I.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:39 pm

amother Coral wrote:

Don't buy an $800K house
Why the heck should that be the norm?
OOT you can get a nice house for half that amount.

Who said anything about an $800k house??

A $650k house (cheap these days!) with 20% down and $12k property tax, with todays interest rates will give you a mortgage of $4,520.

Find me a 4 bedroom house within 1 mile walking distance to a shul in monsey, Brooklyn, Lakewood, or surrounding areas that has a monthly payment significantly lower than $5k.