Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 9:32 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

That's because you need to decide: Are you a mosad or are you a business?

If you are a business, you can have no taanos to anyone opening a new school, can't collect donations, and should expect other businesses to undercut you. Don't come complaining that you can't afford a new building, pay your employees on time or watch them quit, and don't cry when people can't afford your school. Charge full tuition to everyone, kick out those who can't pay. But remember that good customer service will usually expand your customer base.

If you are a mosad who considers it a mitzvah to educate Jewish children, you need to set your tuition to something affordable for the majority of your parent body. You need to fundraise for the rest, and appreciate the parents for their contribution. Expect the community to bail you out if it is ever necessary, and educate them on why your service is so vital. Encourage those who can afford it to give more.

Don't say you're a mosad and then run it like a cutthroat business.

Even out there in the business world there are those who offer sliding scale payment options because they feel their service is important and understand that not everyone is wealthy.

Just because you are a Mossad doesn’t absolve parents of their responsibility. There is no community chest that picks up the slack. They are educating your children. Sure many mosdos can be more transparent. Some can be nicer despite the stress of dealing with parents who seem to think “my kids your problem”.

But at the end of the day schools are not making it. Not the nice ones. Not the less nice ones. Not the transparent ones. Not the less transparent ones. Not the Lakewood ones. Not the out of town ones.

We as a community are not prioritizing our responsibility to our children’s chinuch. Our parents did. We are prioritizing lifestyle choices that don’t leave funds for our children’s schools. That needs to change

amother

↑ Fern ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 9:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

Your last paragraph is not true. Our parents' generation had things much, much easier financially. I look around at my friends and so few of us own houses (in our low 30's) and have no hope of ever buying. And yes we live so simply and dress our kids in hand me downs and drive old cars and don't travel or eat out and don't use doonas and don't have eternity bands etc etc.

There is this misconception that everyone is living the high life and ignoring tuition. It's a minority and not true for the majority. The financial reality now is beyond difficult and terrifying and it's very frustrating to be so misunderstood.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 10:15 pm

amother Fern wrote:

Very location dependent. We grew up on Payless shoes, hand me downs, almost no takeout, day camp instead of sleepaway, junk cars, staycations etc. Most of my friends never flew on a plane unless they had out of town family. Homes were small and counters were Formica. A kiddush or shalom zachor meant a plate of homemade baked goods, not a $20-30 wrapped delivered platter. Wine for shabbos was cheap kedem stuff- period. No one had money for these things, tuition needed to be paid.

In the Lakewood I live in today even basic middle class will not suffice with most of the above. A 2-3 bedroom basement with central air and 10- 12k of furniture is a must to start out for most couples. No ikea and Walmart for me thank you. Most cars are late model and when buying a home 3000 sq ft newish construction is almost an expectation. We come up with 40k for the seminary experience, 70k for a wedding, but we have no money for tuition. Hmmm.

amother

Dustypink

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 10:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

OP, I could have written your first paragraph! That's how we grew up too. I miss those days. I'm trying to raise our kids with an appreciation for the value of a dollar, and without such expectations that I see these days.

amother

Copper

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 10:40 pm

amother Fern wrote:

So much baloney in the article. I an parent in one of the schools whose administrator was interviewed. He made it seem like he is so nice and kind and gracious...him and his whole team is disgusting and treats us like garbage.

My husband and I work so, so hard and such long hours 6 days a week. We live simply in a rented apartment with a 2008 car, hand me downs, no travelling/eating out etc. Unfortunately, we also have a lot of unavoidable medical expenses.

We fill out the scholarship form every year and are so honest with every detail. And while the school does give us a break (although not as much as we need) it is always with SUCH attitude and disgust and contempt like we are cockroaches who are taking advantage, and not simply a really hardworking couple that is struggling a lot. I can't even write out some of the things I was told, it's so horrible.

All the talk in the article about "treating parents nicely" yeah it's the wealthy guys. Not us. At school events and performances, the administrator goes around shaking hands and slapping on the backs all the cool wealthy guys (who don't work nearly as hard as my dh does and whose wives don't work at all) while completely ignoring people like my dh.

And no, I will never, ever, ever give them a penny after my child graduates. They have caused me so much pain. Not that I will ever be wealthy enough to make donations anyway because they make sure I do not have a penny left over to save for simchos or retirement or anything in the future.

Please send this to mishpacha letters!! Perhaps just edit it to be a bit more PC so theres a chance they print it...

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 10:42 pm

In our communities, seminary is an extension of high school, and I'm glad it is that way.

Can you imagine a high school refusing to accept your DD until her elementary school tuition is paid in full?

But then again, where I come from, seminary is $20K (high school is $16K), not $40K.

And our family does shop at Walmart for shoes, use hand-me-downs, no takeout, no vacations, cheap wine, Ikea furniture (if we're feeling wealthy), renting a run-down house with mice, no central air. We still can't afford tuition.

Sure, I could take my kids out of school and away from their friends and classmates. I could deny my older girls that last year of full-time learning and growth in seminary. I could tell my bochurim to learn together in shul and save on the cost of Yeshiva. But is that really what we want for this generation? Or would we rather have my kids part of the community, learning together, even though we're so behind in payments?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 10:49 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Like I said it’s very location dependent. The article really doesn’t apply to communities like yours where apparently most parents are truly living on a shoestring budget while trying to come up with tuition.

The overwhelming majority of the Mishpacha readership lives in communities that do have many of the upgraded standards I described above.

amother

Stoneblue ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

First, the average family isn't doing the above while not paying tuition fees. Those are few and far between.

You need to ask yourself how this transition occurred - how we got from point A to point B. That's critical in this analysis.

Our parents generation definitely had it easier. The ratio of income versus expenses was much more balanced and they were much better able to juggle expenses. Nowadays, you have many families with both parents working and they're still unable to make ends meet.

As this ratio was changing, tuition expenses kept on rising and rising and rising. It reached the point where its literally strangling families or they're unable to pay no matter what. This puts them in a position where families cannot breathe and live. The stress of that is monumental, so in order to survive you slowly shift your priority away from tuition to other necessities, till it moves lower down on the totem pole.

I'm not supporting the position, but it's understandable how we got here. Human beings are designed to survive. If something is too painful and threatens our survival, we apply workarounds. The schools really need to re-evaluate the impact of astronomical tuition fees for the average family. If the average family cannot afford those fees, then something has got to give. If the schools won't give, then families will create the give.

Bottom line is that if you place families in a financial chokehold, they either will collapse or force their way out of it with a method of their own choosing. You cant then blame them for trying to survive.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:07 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

You need to ask yourself how this transition occurred - how we got from point A to point B. That's critical in this analysis.

Our parents generation definitely had it easier. The ratio of income versus expenses was much more balanced and they were much better able to juggle expenses. Nowadays, you have many families with both parents working and they're still unable to make ends meet.

As this ratio was changing, tuition expenses kept on rising and rising and rising. It reached the point where its literally strangling families or they're unable to pay no matter what. This puts them in a position where families cannot breathe and live. The stress of that is monumental, so in order to survive you slowly shift your priority away from tuition to other necessities, till it moves lower down on the totem pole.

I'm not supporting the position, but it's understandable how we got here. Human beings are designed to survive. If something is too painful and threatens our survival, we apply workarounds. The schools really need to re-evaluate the impact of astronomical tuition fees for the average family. If the average family cannot afford those fees, then something has got to give. If the schools won't give, then families will create the give.

Bottom line is that if you place families in a financial chokehold, they either will collapse or force their way out of it with a method of their own choosing.

You are saying that it’s all because schools raised tuition to impossible levels so families said “you know what, lets ditch the grace stroller for a $700 Doona, get the kids Italian leather shoes, $300 shabbos coats, vacation in Florida, and go for a brand new leased Sienna”. I find that theory hard to swallow.

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

So the schools have a big challenge: Educate parents about the value of education and why they should want to pay for it.

They are not the first industry that needs to change perceptions. Let me share one of my favorite case studies:

I started out in graphic design in the mid-2000s. In those days, there was a big problem: Stock photography (generic pictures that can be licensed and used in your ads and flyers) was very expensive and only offered by a few large companies with complicated licensing terms.

So designers routinely stole images from the web. They'd search for a photo or image that looked right, download it and use it in their own work.

Some of the big stock companies tried prosecuting those using stolen artwork, but it was a massive problem and they couldn't make much of a dent. Some designers felt guilty, but most just considered it normal, because when you're making $150 to design a flyer you can't afford to pay $125 for a single image.

Then entered iStockPhoto. They were a new startup, and in those days had a very community feel. They started selling stock photography for just 25 cents each, with very simple terms. Over the years they raised prices slowly, improved their website and took down the lower quality work, and spawned a million copycat sites. But the main thing they accomplished was normalizing paying for your stock photos. There are still those who steal nowadays, but most graphic designers now consider it obvious that you need to pay for the images you use.

I find it fascinating that they did this without lawsuits, without threats, without berating designers. Just by lowering the bar of entry enough that people could easily cross it and appreciate the value of paying for images.

The idea of the school encouraging parents to voluntarily pay the full cost of educating their child is in my mind a similar concept.

Then take it to the next step. Celebrate the parents who pay the full cost. Let them feel the pride of having paid for their child's education. Over time others will be encouraged to try to buy in as well.

(The attitude to parents who are paying more than they can afford, even when it's not full tuition, also needs some work. I may be paying a small percentage of the cost of education, but I'm paying a significant percentage of our income, even while I have shutoff notices from utilities and can't afford even a full chicken for Shabbos. It's a good thing I was raised to value paying tuition, because otherwise the lack of acknowledgement of the sacrifices we make and the way we're treated by schools would send me in the other direction entirely.)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:13 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Fully agree. Schools have a lot of work to do marketing and changing perceptions. Transparency would help.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

You are saying that it’s all because schools raised tuition to impossible levels so families said “you know what, lets get the kids Italian leather shoes, vacation in Florida, and go for a brand new leased uSienna”. I find that theory hard to swallow.

No, you are using extreme examples to try to make your point but it doesn't hold much water.

The average family is not doing the above. Are there select families doing that, sure. But that's not reflective of the majority. The majority is struggling and doing whatever they can to put some money towards tuition. But just because they can't pay full fees, doesn't mean they can't take an occasional vacation or they need to restrict all their purchases to only the most basic needs. People need to live as well, otherwise we will have a mental crisis on our hand that will be beyond imaginable.

Life just can't be about holding down three jobs just to pay tuition and basic necessities, without the ability to come up for air. People will collapse and our children will become disillusioned about yiddishkeit if this is their future.

Schools have to allow for a balance of life and living. Bottom line is that they need to take measure of their fees. An appropriate measure is to see if the average family can afford it. If it's a hard NO, then you cant blame the families.

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:17 pm

amother OP wrote:

"You know what, tuition is $40,000 for our kids this year, more than a third of what we're bringing in before taxes. There's no way we can pay that much. Why should we save money on a stroller? The school won't appreciate that $400 anyhow, they'll just complain that we're not paying more. Why should our kids wear uncomfortable shoes? That $50 difference won't make a dent."

Makes a lot of sense to me, actually.

When something is so far beyond your reach, fatalism sets in. And if the school is going to yell at you and threaten you anyhow, you may as well cry in a late-model Sienna instead of a clunker that might not make it home.

(Said by a mother who pushes a Graco stroller, buys Walmart shoes, doesn't go on any vacation at all, most kids don't have Shabbos shoes let alone Shabbos coats, and drives a small sedan instead of a minivan even though that means she can never take all of her kids at once)

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:19 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Your comparison is not equitable. If you want to make it equitable, it would be that the schools would drastically lower their fees to entice people to pay full tuition, and then gradually raise it to an affordable amount.

And celebrating parents who pay full amounts will fall flat. It will just be another pat on the back for the wealthy while pushing aside those who put in extra effort to pay their reduced amount. It will be nothing more than a celebration of the rich.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:22 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

"You know what, tuition is u for our kids this year, more than a third of what we're bringing in before taxes. There's no way we can pay that much. Why should we save money on a stroller? The school won't appreciate that $400 anyhow, they'll just complain that we're not paying more. Why should our kids wear uncomfortable shoes? That $50 difference won't make a dent."

Makes a lot of sense to me, actually.

When something is so far beyond your reach, fatalism sets in. And if the school is going to yell at you and threaten you anyhow, you may as well cry in a late-model Sienna instead of a clunker that might not make it home.

(Said by a mother who pushes a Graco stroller, buys Walmart shoes, doesn't go on any vacation at all, most kids don't have Shabbos shoes let alone Shabbos coats, and drives a small sedan instead of a minivan even though that means she can never take all of her kids at once)

Well said. This speaks to my earlier point that a true measure of appropriate fees is if the average family can afford it. If the fees are astronomical, to the degree that it's only affordable by the rich, then the average family will just consider it as totally out of reach and act in way that you describe above.

amother

Maroon ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:45 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Agree, but there's more. It's also about the massive attitude shift towards schools that's happened since we were kids, as alluded to in the article and on several posts in this thread.

First, when we were kids schools were run by a few people we all looked up to and deeply respected. Today, in addition to principals, deans and administrators, most schools have owners. Many of them seem to be living the high life. This makes people think of schools as businesses and not cash-strapped organizations.

Also, when I grew up, I could name every local elementary school that catered to my community (and I grew up in Flatbush). Today, in Lakewood, there are 30+ schools for girls and another 30+ for boys and another school opening every 5 minutes (and sadly, another few closing their doors as well). In our day, the few schools around had name recognition, they were established, respected mossads, which gave them an easier time fundraising. Today, there are very, very few schools that have this advantage. It's also harder for a community to support so many schools, but there's really no way around it.

Also, in our day school buildings were generally large buildings that were nicely maintained but nothing spectacular. Today, each building outdoes the next in sheer size, luxe level and grandeur. Again, it's hard to feel like a school is in desperate need of your tuition dollars when they're spearheading $8 million funding campaigns.

It's a different world today. And there's likely no going back.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:51 pm

amother Maroon wrote:

Agree, but there's more. It's also about the massive attitude shift towards schools that's happened since we were kids, as alluded to in the article and on several posts in this thread.

First, when we were kids schools were run by a few people we all looked up to and deeply respected. Today, in addition to principals, deans and administrators, most schools have owners. Many of them seem to be living the high life. This makes people think of schools as businesses and not cash-strapped organizations.

Also, when I grew up, I could name every local elementary school that catered to my community. Today, in Lakewood, there are 30+ schools for girls and another 30+ for boys and another school opening every 5 minutes (and sadly, another few closing their doors as well). In our day, the few schools around had name recognition, they were established, respected mossads, which gave them an easier time fundraising. Today, there are very, very few schools that have this advantage. It's also harder for a community to support so many schools, but there's really no way around it.

Also, in our day school buildings were generally large buildings that were nicely maintained but nothing spectacular. Today, each building outdoes the next in sheer size, luxe level and grandeur. Again, it's hard to feel like a school is in desperate need of your tuition dollars when they're spearheading $8 million funding campaigns.

It's a different world today. And there's likely no going back.

Agree. As per above, the massive shift is because of the schools themselves. If you have school owners appearing to live the high life, with grand buildings, large fundraising amounts and an excess of extra curricular activities, isn't it understandable that it affects people's attitudes towards them.

To add, respect begets respect. Back in the days, the Dean, administrators, and principals respected the parents. Today, they act like they're doing us the biggest favor by allowing us the privilege to send our kids to their lofty schools. Such attitudes begets similar attitudes as well.