Why does being nice backfire

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 1:03 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

You can be nice and still be firm and have boundaries. You can address your frustration to a company without being mean. Try that and see if you are getting results before assuming you have to be mean.

Yes, I wouldn't want to be mean

I am also very trusting of what people say. I believe them if I'm told something will be taken care of today or that they promise me it'll get done..and then it doesn't

Cheiny

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 1:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Why is it that the people who talk tough and put their foot down and arent always 'nice'or pleasant when they speak get what they need quicker and faster

Vs the ones that are more soft spoken, easier to deal with taken for the ride..
I've had a few instances recently where because of my soft spoken, calmer nature, where it seems like I'm unheard and people end up taking advantage because we are nice and not going to give an issue and be understanding
For instance we hired a service that promised us a quick turnaround and it's been weeks for the service to be completed after politely following up and not being a nudge... but if I start questioned and sounding frustrated then suddenly it's taken seriously-
This happens in different scenarios

So Is it better to be more tough and intimating to get thing done?

Obviously, some people take advantage of those they perceive to be pushovers or unlikely to stand up for themselves, or easy victims. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

amother

Almond

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 2:34 pm

Op- I am also considered "nice" and am sometimes taken advantage of.
But I wouldn't change anything.

Consider the fact that every type of personality has pros and cons.
You are the type of person that people really like, and don't talk about behind your back. Your friendships are real.
After 120, people remember the kindness and goodness of nice people like you with fondness, and not like the "squeaky wheel" types.

If you think you need to work on your assertiveness, do so. But don't try to change your niceness, which is a gift from Hashem.

amother

Fuchsia ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 3:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

So many different aspects to this q. My first reaction based off title was:
Because expectations are too high.
Then you mentioned these “step over people people” that’s what I call them, huge pet peeve for me. The answer to why they get what they want is bc they intimidate people and they also usually have some weird sort of chein and ppl are charmed by them.
You feel this way because your expectations are so high. I was like this in my early 20s and when my self esteem was super low and expectations way too high. It took years of work for me to realize this , even after someone close to me told me I was so naive.

Then you mentioned a business encounter. First of all, sounds like bad customer service in general and second , don’t take it personally! They just got scared for their rep when you became forceful. Lastly, don’t stoop down to their level. I have a business with an unclear turn around and I appreciate a civil back and forth and conversation. Continue being nice and good natured, kill them with your kindness and don’t change for anyone.
Hatzlacha!

amother

↑ OP

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 3:45 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Tnx for the response
I have definitely gotten better with time, life and maturity and was different in my early 20s and

For the expectations why are they to high?
I gave a business example because that was the most recent although it does happen in many different situations with people and companies
For this service I highered a company they promised me 10 days it's 6 weeks later
And a couple of weeks ago same thing happened with completely different vendor, promised 1&half weeks took over 5 -
With excuses in between its summer, child wedding.. once I sent an email with wording helped by my Co- worker not rude or the like did I receive it that day

Like how does it keep happening to me?

oohlala

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 4:57 pm

At work when someone tells me they will do something and it’s past the time they said they will do it, I send a reminder email. Keep sending those, and politely and firmly ask them to deliver.
I have learned to speak explicitly about what I’m asking for, leaving out words like “do you think” or “I’m just” etc. plainly and politely state your request with the fewest words possible. And keep following up. Practice by writing polite, firm and explicit emails. Then practice saying it.
Also- follow up every phone conversation with an email that describes what was said and who agreed to do what and when. “ it was great speaking with you today! We discussed xyz. You mentioned that will do abc and I will follow up in one week.” Etc
Good luck!

amother

Azure

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 5:27 pm

amother OP wrote:

Same here, OP. It's so disheartening and frustrating beyond to feel like being nice and flexible gets interpreted as not being valued enough to be taken seriously.

On the flip side, I work in a student-services field and there are so many moving pieces that (with insurance, government funding, schools, etc.) that are out of our control. We do keep parents updated as much as we can, but some items are not up to us and it can take doctors' offices, insurance companies, etc. weeks or months longer than anticipated to approve services. Believe me, I feel for the families we work with and wish I could just snap my fingers and make the services happen already!

Sometimes the timing might seem like "I got aggressive and that made the service provider magically get their act together!" when in actuality, the timing of the parent's frustrated call (after months of waiting) coincides almost exactly with the government/doctor/insurance/whoever finally finishing their paperwork process. So it may seem like "becoming aggressive" is what got the services set up, when in actuality it's the coinciding of parent expressing their frustration AND the department we are waiting on both contacting us at the same time. I don't know if this helps the frustration at all but from the agency's angle this is often what happens. Personally I make the effort to ensure that the parents know that the DOE or the insurance just approved x service so that it's clear that the delay is not on our end.

amother

Sage

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 5:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

A person can be firm and assertive but still polite, compassionate and kind.
Niceness doesn't have to = doormat.
It's something I work at.
I'm the sort of person who tends to get sucked into "yes" when I want to say "no" -- to please everyone, be seen as generous and helpful, etc.
I have trained myself not to give answers right away. Say I need to check my schedule, check with my husband, think about it, etc. When the pressure is removed I can empower myself to say no when I need or want to and do it in a firm but compassionate way.
Also working on speaking up for myself without being obnoxious. I tend to go from docile push-over to complete witch with no in-between. I've learned to be firm and persistent while remaining calm and polite. It's a skill and not at all natural for all of us.

amother

↑ Fuchsia

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 7:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

Call me a pessimist but I would never take any small business’ word on the finish time. That’s a high expectation

ora_43 ↓

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 4:59 am

No one approach works in every situation.

A big smile and a "hi, how are you?" would be a nice way to greet a friend, a weird way to greet a stranger, and an insensitive way to greet someone who just lost a close relative.

Similarly, "no pressure, I trust you're working as fast as you can" is a great approach with people who are trustworthy and responsible, less effective with people who are trustworthy but not so responsible, and is going to backfire with people who aren't trustworthy.

But it also works the other way around, being rude and pushy gets you better treatment in both the short and long term from people who aren't trustworthy, better treatment in the short term but worse in the long term from people who are trustworthy but not responsible, and worse treatment short and long term from people who are both trustworthy and responsible.

There's no one size fits all approach.

IMHO it's best to start off nice, but be ready to nudge as needed. Starting with polite nudges ("hi, I haven't heard back in a while, just wanted to confirm that (thing) is still expected to arrive by (date)"), moving on to more direct ("I really need (thing), when can it be ready?") and finally if absolutely necessary warn them of possible consequences ("As I've said, I need (thing) done by (date). If that's not something you can do, I need to know now, so that I can order it elsewhere.")

↑ ora_43

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 5:08 am

I think it's about boundaries in the sense that, if you have clear red lines and the willingness to back them up, you don't need to get mean. You just enforce your boundary.

Like, if I've set "no work calls after 10pm" as a boundary, I don't need to yell at clients to make them stop calling after 10, I can just set my phone to block all work-related calls after that time. If I've set "I need this done by (date)" as a boundary, I don't need to yell and scream if it doesn't happen - I need a contract stipulating that it's going to happen, complete with consequences if it doesn't (or, if that's not possible, I could politely point out the natural consequences, eg me not buying there again).

There can be a thin line - "if I don't get this on time, I'm going to think twice about buying here again" is the kind of thing that could read as either a reasonable statement or a pushy complaint - but overall, boundaries are about me and what I'm going to do. IOW I'm not trying to force the other person into certain behavior, I'm only trying to protect my interests.

wanttobehappy

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 5:09 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

If your life depended on it, would you develop assertiveness?
Maybe you need coaching. Practice being assertive ( not aggressive).

Exactly just start being firm, be very clear with ur expectations. There is nothing wrong with saying. I am disappointed this wasn’t done in the time frame promised.
Or “ this wasn’t what I was expecting from a professional company…” how can u make this right now?
How can u avoid this in the future?