would your kids do this? Please be honest about it

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Would your kids do this? Please be honest about it

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Raisin ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:45 am

At least it was ikea and not priceless chippendale. Have you read the roald Dahl story Parsons pleasure? (google it if you haven't, it's worth a read. Although you might have guessed part of the plot....

↑ freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:45 am

I think it depends on a few factors.
Whether the Israeli amother is here a long time, whether she is raising her children in an israeli environment, whether her kids are hanging around with other anglo children or children of anglos or whether they are hanging around with israeli non-anglo family kids.

Here is something that I don't know if it makes a difference or not.
These kids were all from totally Israeli mizrahii families. True, middle class mizrahi because to live in this neighborhood you can't be poor, and our shul has some mizrahii families although it is not a sefaradi shul (hence one of the gabaim is mizrahi) but these kids are pure Israeli as far as one can get.

That doesn't meant BTW that I think that only mizrahii kids would do this. Ashkenazi Israelis would do it as well.

↑ Tamiri ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:08 am

So, FS... were you saying that POOR Mizrahi kids would be more likely to do this? ANY type of poor kid? What was the point? And no, I'm not Mizrahi... just surprised you would mention it. No relevance to the topic.

syrima

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:16 am

Maybe if/when you order new IKEA bookcases some of the kids could assemble them for you - I doubt they can afford to pay for it.
(sigh) I would trade with you...we are doing Lag Baomer in NYC dancing around a fire in a tin can.
Next year in Yerushalayim!

chocolate chips

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:18 am

Totally Israeli.

If my son ever did such a thing, gosh I don't want to think about it, I hope I can bring him up to KNOW that such things are not done.

Fires are built with twigs and leaves from the park!

We used to have a real israeli family who lived with us and my what those kids could trash, in seconds, they had no cares for the world and the parents let them do what they want.
Its such a different mentality!

Coffee3

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:23 am

What is a machsan?
I know that my kids things get stolen in school and my things were stolen too. Destroying furniture is a little unusual.

Liba

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:25 am

I have never heard of or seen such a thing. My children wouldn't contemplate it, but then again DH and I are American.

They B"H have great respect for personal property and have learned the same in their Israeli (chereidi) schools.

↑ Tamiri

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:25 am

Machsan is a storage shed or storage room.

21young

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:32 am

Israeli all the way.
Case in point, Yesterday I was cleaning my folding table that's usually kept in the garage, and I left it on the sidewalk to dry. A few boys from the block knocked on my door to ask if they could borrow the table for a carnival. (These are wild boys, but they figured the table was mine, so they asked before taking it.) I said yes, as long as I get it back today. After the carnival they schlepped it back, and I was impressed that they even put it back in the garage for me.
Again, these are really wild boys, but they know that you don't take something without permission, and you return it when you're done. Obviously, I live in the U.S.

DrMom

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:32 am

freidasima wrote:

It's not an open space, it's not a play space, and this was next to the door of the machsan with things on the shelves!

Obviously, this was not firewood for the taking. My kids would not do that -- and if they did I woudl demand that they work off the value of that furniture for be providing free labor of some sort to the former owners of the furniture.

Then again, I believe you have accused me more than once of being "too American" in my parenting habits, so I am not sure if my opinion is meaningful here.

5*Mom ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:37 am

freidasima wrote:

Yes, this is what I have seen. Native Israeli kids and kids of Americans who are being raised in very Israeli environments as Israelis do this around here. The more American kids do not.

freidasima wrote:

Here is something that I don't know if it makes a difference or not.
These kids were all from totally Israeli mizrahii families. True, middle class mizrahi because to live in this neighborhood you can't be poor, and our shul has some mizrahii families although it is not a sefaradi shul (hence one of the gabaim is mizrahi) but these kids are pure Israeli as far as one can get.

That doesn't meant BTW that I think that only mizrahii kids would do this. Ashkenazi Israelis would do it as well.

I have seen this across the spectrum of Israeli: From traditional to chareidi. We discuss this with our kids every year in advance of Lag B'Omer and we collect wood together with our children, as a family bonding experience, in order to impart our "American" value of respect for personal property. But we do not point out (what we see as) the American vs. Israeli value difference.

Our motto is, "When in doubt... don't take it." No, my children would not do this. Yes, I am sure Wink

flowerpower

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:41 am

Nopes. I realy doubt it. Noone makes their own bonfire here anyways!!!!!!

ValleyMom

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:46 am

That reminds me when my oldests sister moved from Brookly to Monsey 25 years ago. She moved onto a street where she was the only shomer shabbos family. The first day they moved in her kids brought all sorts of stuff they had "found" or missappropriated from homes in the neighborhood. Gardening tools, small toys, balls, garden statues etc.

As well as freshly picked flowers fromt the front of every single home. Imagine her humiliation as she had to drag kids and contraband in tow door to door asking neighborss if anything belonged to them and apologising for her hoodlum children.

Humiliating indeed.

Some neighbors found it funny, others were dismayed, some were annoyed. But the bottom line is a lesson was taught and the information was received. The kids NEVER did anything like THAT again.

↑ freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:48 am

Tamiri chill.

I mentioned the kids being of mizrahi origin only because I was answering the question about anglos or children of anglos here. It was to show that these kids were totally Israeli and not influenced by anglo parents or even western european culture. I doubt that french, swiss, german, austrian etc. frum kids would do it, not only anglos.

I also mentioned that they were middle class to explain that as I live in a very middle class neighborhood, that these were kids from here, not from other parts of the city and that they had been brought up with the usual Israeli middle class values of large urban centers. That's all!

I also mentioned that I think that ashkenazi israelis would do it as well in my opinion!

So don't look for an ethnic slur when none was meant!

naturalmom5 ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 10:55 am

No. Chas V Shalom!!'
I have my share of peeves about Lakewood as you know from both my posts and PMs , but to be fair 95% of children in my neighborhood wouldn't use a pen without asking permission

penguin

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:08 pm

FS, if some of the boys were over bar mitzvah they are surely obligated to reimburse you! What did your husband say about that?

Kugglegirl

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:48 pm

I am really sorry about your furniture. I'd be mad too.

Living here in the states, in an OOT suburban location,I am pretty sure my kids would not do that & here is why:

1.my kids are in school & not home until after 4:30, so much less free time to destroy things.

2. If anyone makes a bonfire, it is in a park or somewhere with lots of adult supervision. And no one is shleping wood out to the park.

3. We have plenty of trees and bushes, so they would have lots of sticks & logs to pick up before they tore apart a desk.

4. They think that gathering firewood is a chore, since I make them gather fire wood so I can cook when we go camping.

5. When my kids do find furniture they think is hefker, they take it and paint it with colorful acrylic paints.

↑ Raisin ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:52 pm

yes, kids in chul have a lot less freedom. My 11 year old son would never be doing such a thing.

shanie5

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 6:28 pm

No, they wouldnt. However, there are many kids I know who have little or no care of others property. They will damage things with carelessness, but not take and destroy s/t that is not theirs.

↑ freidasima ↓

Sat, Apr 27 2013, 2:26 pm

Penguin for whatever reason my husband decided not to confront the parents and to let it go. I'm really surprised at that, but decided to leave it to him. I think it has to do with the fact that right now we are dealing with some really serious health issues, both his and mine, and he has absolutely no head for this. I understand him fully and kaparrah on it all...

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