What went wrong in Texas?

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 12:09 am

pause wrote:

I like your analogy, and you're absolutely right that current laws need enforcement before new laws are put in place. But IMO to make the analogy work for current events, I'd liken it to the current universal speed limit being at 75 mph. That's a safe limit for a rural freeway but not quite for a busy city street.

"Car control" are advocating for a lowering of the universal speed limit plus additional restrictions depending on the circumstances. OTOH, the "car rights" people are advocating for everyone to always be allowed to drive without taking into account that for most situations there is no need to be allowed to drive at 75 mph and that 55 will be just fine too. They are just terrified that the "car control" people will take away their cars altogether so they fight the sensible reduction of the speed limit.

I guess we disagree about what is sensible. (As I've said before, there are 20,000 gun laws already. In my mind, that's a sensible limit already. ) Plus, you are wrong to imply that gun rights people want no limits on guns. I've never actually met a gun right absolutist. We actually all believe in laws and limits.

But yes, it would definitely help us reach a compromise if "car control" people didn't believe cars are scary, and that no one needs a truck (the scary black ones should be banned), and the world needs less cars, and it's shameful how many cars we own, and that no one needs an arsenal of cars, and that anyone who doesn't think that the solution is more laws must hate kids.....

↑ pause ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 12:15 am

sushilover wrote:

I guess we disagree about what is sensible. (As I've said before, there are 20,000 gun laws already. In my mind, that's a sensible limit already. ) But yes, it would definitely help if "car control" people didn't believe cars are scary, and that no one needs a truck (the scary black ones should be banned), and the world needs less cars, and it's shameful how many cars we own, and that no one needs an arsenal of cars, and that anyone who doesn't think that the solution is more laws must hate kids.....
It would definitely make a compromise more likely.

Well, you and I definitely disagree because cars are scary (metal hulks going at quick speeds), and the world does need fewer cars (pollution, y'know).

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 12:28 am

pause wrote:

Well, you and I definitely disagree because cars are scary (metal hulks going at quick speeds), and the world does need fewer cars (pollution, y'know).

Lol!

Well, I do think cars are scary and I have a healthy respect for them. But they are are not *only* scary. They are also very useful and important to many people.

I think you'd be surprised if you saw how careful and respectful the "car rights" people are, which is why we believe that mandatory training would be a useless waste of time and resources and wouldn't improve our "car violence" rates at all.

↑ gold21 ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 1:05 am

pause wrote:

Well, you and I definitely disagree because cars are scary (metal hulks going at quick speeds), and the world does need fewer cars (pollution, y'know).

Do you drive?

The way you describe your fear of cars, I'm wondering if perhaps you don't drive (for religious reasons).

↑ gold21 ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:06 am

pause wrote:

I should hope that anyone who drives has the awareness of the responsibility they hold each and every time they get behind the wheel.

Awareness, but not fear.

The awareness that cars can be dangerous may encourage someone to study Defensive Driving and employ these strategies when driving; to consider staying off the roads after a certain hour at night unless absolutely necessary; to exercise caution when crossing the street; to drive their own vehicle instead of relying on a stranger to drive them around; to wear glow in the dark straps when walking outside after dark; to avoid driving when exhausted (slower reflexes) unless absolutely necessary.

By the way, Defensive Driving is an excellent course (when given by a qualified instructor) and really helps cultivate a healthy approach to driving. I think all drivers should take this course.

I don't see fear as a useful response to cars. Awareness is key. Not fear.

Anyway..... just my opinion.

Last edited by gold21 on Sun, May 29 2022, 2:18 am; edited 3 times in total

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:09 am

Since the the title is "What went wrong in Texas?" I can't help but focus on the poor of emergency response. I justcan't wrap my head around what exactly these police officers were thinking.

There were kids inside the school calling 911 and nobody came in to help them for 78 minutes, despite 19 police officers surrounding the school. They were waiting for backup.

Quote:

Police were reluctant to immediately engage with the gunman who spent an hour inside the elementary school in Uvalde, Tex., where he killed 19 children and two adults because “they could’ve been shot,” a lieutenant with the Texas Department of Public Safety said in a CNN interview.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-l......html
https://www.newsweek.com/uvald.....10727

But the Uvalde police department ran an "Active Shooter Training" workshop, including role-playing drills in a school, just 9 weeks before the incident. The course emphasized the need for quick intervention, even if a lone officer needed to confront an active shooter.
https://www.dailywire.com/news.....sacre

And the shooter wasn't even killed by the police -- he was killed by an off-duty border patrol agent who was in the middle of getting a haircut when he heard about the incident and rushed over to rescue his daughter.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/n.....oter/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/uva.....ghter
https://www.nydailynews.com/ne......html

↑ gold21 ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:16 am

DrMom wrote:

Quote:

What a nightmare. Those cops SUCK. Seriously. Sounds like the cops were the ones who were hysterical, not the parents who had the right idea about storming the building. But it's too late now. These idiot cops messed up and now kids are dead. Sick.

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:20 am

gold21 wrote:

What a nightmare. Those cops SUCK. Seriously.

I just don't know what they were thinking.

Perhaps, in light of the George Floyd riots, etc etc., the police are so worried about making a misstep that they were reluctant to react?

I cannot think of any other logical explanation.

↑ gold21 ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:21 am

DrMom wrote:

I don't know. It's just so so upsetting. Those poor babies. That the school had subpar (or nonexistent) security is bad enough, that the local police department is a bunch of losers is even worse. Ugh.

↑ Heyaaa ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:36 am

So the shooter had both legal and illegal guns.

A random citizen was carrying a legally owned gun. A parent in the school took that gun and shot the shooter.

Conclusion: people shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

Btw dh had a gun put to his head by a black dude as a teen. I have a real hunch that the gun wasn’t legal…..

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:46 am

Heyaaa wrote:

How did you reach that radical conclusion?

BTW, I'm glad Kyle Rittenhouse was able to legally carry a gun.

↑ Heyaaa ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 3:01 am

DrMom wrote:

How did you reach that radical conclusion?

BTW, I'm glad Kyle Rittenhouse was able to legally carry a gun.

It’s not my conclusion.

Something I’ve said over and over is that bad people figure out how to get guns no matter what the law is. And the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 3:29 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Ah, got it.
I wasn't able to keep track of everybody's perspectives throughout the long thread so I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Wink

Living Princess ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 3:50 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Agree 100%, and it might even be a good idea to have armed teachers, who care more about the students then a scaredy cat cop or elusive security guard.

↑ Raisin

Sun, May 29 2022, 5:07 am

Heyaaa wrote:

I am not so sure that is true. If it were illegal, how would an 18 year old with (I asume) no criminal connections get a gun easily? And a semi assault weapon at that.

It seems both him and the Sandy Hook killer used legally aquired guns.

↑ Heyaaa ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 5:21 am

Raisin wrote:

In Chicago drug dealers and gang members will give 14 year olds guns if they fit a certain profile. It’s better to give a gun to a 14 year old than to an older teen because their conscience is more malleable.

↑ Heyaaa ↓

Sun, May 29 2022, 5:22 am

Raisin wrote:

Anyone doing street drugs has some connections to criminals.