Confessions of a nonpayer S/O tuition thread

amother

Taupe ↓

Today at 8:35 am

amother Impatiens wrote:

How do chassidish people afford tuition? I always wonder they have a lot of kids as well but I think it’s worse in litfish community

In the chasidish world, if you choose to send to a school within your kehilla (satmar, vishnitz) the base rate for tuition is usually dirt cheap and if you ask for reduced rates, they’re generally very accommodating.
Problem begins with private chassidish schools (I.e. monsey) who dont have a big rebbe backing and funding them. They cant survive unless they charge significantly and count on every kid’s tuition. It’s a lot harder to get a reduced rate and even so theyre still struggling and need to fundraise nonstop.

amother

↑ Raspberry

Today at 8:40 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

It is a fact. Numbers can prove it. My grandfather paid 400$ a month on his mortgage and earned 500$ a week. My mortgage is 7,000$ and together we earn 10,400$. (Hoping to refinance) if things would be even I would be earning at least 24,000$ a month. And I wouldn’t even be rich. Maybe a bit comfortable. And my grandfather wasn’t rich either.

If you do a little research you will find this phenomenon all over. It is significantly more expensive to have kids than it used to be

This is off topic but I literally can’t move on from the fact that you took on a mortgage that is 70% of your income. Was your income higher when you took on the mortgage? How do you afford the bare necessities?

amother

↑ Outerspace

Today at 8:43 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

I would assume reliance on rentals.
If there are 2 rental properties, 1 $1000 a month and 1 $2000 a month, it's more doable.
The problem arises when the rental industry goes down. And the owner is making $800 and $1500 leaving a monthly gap

Im seeing this issue in Lakewood a lot.

Trademark ↓

Today at 8:46 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

How big was your grandparents house compared to yours?

I once saw a study that of course housing is much more expensive now, but they used to live in much smaller houses, so it's not always apples to apples.

amother

↑ Jasmine ↓

Today at 8:49 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

My income was higher. We were earning 15,000$ a month about. We’re going through an extremely rough period and I’m hoping I’ll sweat it through until both me and dh develop our careers a bit more and we can refinance

You can pray for me

amother

↑ Jasmine ↓

Today at 8:51 am

Trademark wrote:

A high ranch in Monsey that can go today for over a million. It is possible my house is slightly bigger but I bought very out of the area. And it’s not drastically larger.

I know a bit about historical architecture and I have not observed houses to be smaller. Maybe to the contrary. Formality was much more of a thing. Typical colonials and high ranches we have today were created in the 60s. Maybe even esrlier

amother

↑ Green ↓

Today at 8:51 am

Trademark wrote:

I dont know.
My parents paid $800 for a 2 bdrm rental in an apartment building when they got married, that same apartment is now $2500 a month.
(Williamsburg)

Materials are more expensive to build today, but old houses aren't cheaper to buy.

amother

↑ Green

Today at 8:53 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

This. The first owners of my high ranch 50 years ago, paid 60K for my house.
That same dilapidated house cost us 700K 3 years ago, and I can sell it for 1 million now.

amother

↑ Fern

Today at 8:53 am

Trademark wrote:

So. Not true. Depends on area.
My grandparents sold their house about 4 years ago. They lived in center of Flatbush and paid 200k on their house. It was probably 5k sqft. They sold it for 5 million dollars. Houses were not necessarily smaller. Although they lived much more simply. Sadly society created monsters.

amother

↑ Taupe ↓

Today at 8:54 am

Trademark wrote:

My grandparents paid 25k for a brownstone in Williamsburg. That house still exists today. Cost is probably 2-3M.
And lots of their grandchildren who choose to stay living in Williamsburg live in tiny apartments and pay than that in rent per year

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 8:54 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

I'm still stuck on the part where people actually think that their jobs sustains them and their families.
I think I learned in school (not sure how much tuition cost then) that Hashem is the one that sustains all mankind and even the ant that is building tunnels in the sand. Hashem provides food for the cat that is homeless and for the toad in the pond. None of them hold down jobs or are on birth control.

A person can have all the money in the world and die of hunger. He is not being sustained by his money, he is being sustained by Hashem. At a certain time in history people burned their $100.00 bills to use as fuel because there was no other heating option.
Let's circle back to the real source of all our income, of all our sustenance. It's impossible to sustain yourselves from all these outside things. And if it does happen, it's because Hashem conceals himself within those parameters, not because it's actually a source of sustenance.

This is not an old fashioned concept, it's very much alive these days as it was from the beginning of time.
Unless of course you are transferring your belief from Hashem and putting it onto your jobs/incomes.
Then of course you are confining yourself.

Op, don't let yourself get hurt or change your view in life by the naysayers here.
May Hashem bring lots of shefa into your life and may you enjoy lots of nachas from all of your children!

You're 100% right, and I have a stack of bitachon sefarim at home, which DH and I learn regularly.

BUT, I've also learned that we must do enough hishtadlus to support ourselves according to the rules of teva. Which means that while I know and believe and say all the time that I will not earn one penny if it was not decreed so by Hashem, I must still do all I can so that Hashem will bless me with a sufficient parnassah to support my family.

↑ Trademark

Today at 8:55 am

amother Green wrote:

Maybe it's different in Jewish areas. I was just curious.

And my grandmother paid $80 and her sisters asked her why she took an apartment with such rent!!!!! This was in Brooklyn!!!!!

amother

↑ OP

Today at 9:01 am

mom! wrote:

Op, I have no advice for you. This sounds extremely challenging.

I am in awe of the calmness coming through in your posts. You are truly an inspiration and may Hashem send you yeshuos and parnassah keheref ayin!

I can’t help with the tuition but is there something specific you need today (or yesterday) or tomorrow that I can try to assist with?

This is so sweet, thank you but we're okay.

All I can say to you and anyone who is reading posts like these and wanting to help, is please, please support Tomchei Shabbos. Yes, kiruv and making sure every kallah has nice furniture and bedding is important, but Tomchei Shabbos is literally keeping thousands of families from starving each month. They are incredible!

mfb

Today at 9:03 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 8 children, with the 2 youngest still playgroup age?

I feel like someone that post something this nasty should have it switched by mods to their screen name so everyone can know who posted it. It may stop people from posting nasty comments. There is absolutely nothing private in there that has to be amother for.

water_bear88 ↓

Today at 9:25 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

Eh, lower-income housing is much more likely to have been knocked down for newer construction. There's always survivorship bias with anything old, be that clothing or houses.

amother

Glitter ↓

Today at 9:26 am

amother Green wrote:

There are definitely ways to tweak your income and qualify for foodstamps, medicaid and heap.

Since your husband has his own business, he can stop taking out an official salary and bill the business for expenses that make sense for an office to have.
For example all Amazon, target, Walmart, staples orders, cleaning help, landscaping, utilities, phones, can be billed to the business.

This will bring your official income down and allow you to get the benefits you need.

Granted, it isn't the most honest, but legally it is hard to prove that these aren't business expenses.

THIS IS ILLEGAL AND A HUGE CHILLUL HASHEM. go ask your rav if you can do this. Or your lawyer. NOT OK. This is how frum Jews end up in jail.

amother

Vermilion

Today at 9:28 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

This is such a disgusting anti Torah sentiment and reflects on the real issue of our society today. Yeshiva tuition is not more important than birthing another Jewish neshama. Our priorities are totally skewed.

This doesn't apply to OP because she stated she could afford all of her kids before.
But where does it say in the torah to have more kids when you can't afford basic thi gs for the ones you already have?
It's absolutely irresponsible and selfish to bring more children into the world who will not have their needs met. And with needs I mean food, clothes, electricity and heating and health insurance. Especially when one already has 3-4 children.
Again this is not regarding OP. She couldn't possibly forsee the future.

amother

↑ Jasmine ↓

Today at 9:29 am

water_bear88 wrote:

Eh, lower-income housing is much more likely to have been knocked down for newer construction. There's always survivorship bias with anything old, be that clothing or houses.

I’m sure there was lower income housing but we are talking average. My grandparents were not rich… they were considered poor at the time. They were from the pioneers in Monsey and the houses sold were high ranches.

I told you I read up on historical architecture of homes. This is very much not true. You can google it “what did average home look like in___”

In manhattan, the Brownstones were built FOR THE POOR people. Do you know how much they sell for?

In Brooklyn it is well known that older apartment buildings have bigger apartments.

Aurora ↓

Today at 9:33 am

amother OP wrote:

We do.

amother

↑ Rainbow

Today at 9:39 am

amother Glitter wrote:

THIS IS ILLEGAL AND A HUGE CHILLUL HASHEM. go ask your rav if you can do this. Or your lawyer. NOT OK. This is how frum Jews end up in jail.

I was waiting for someone to respond to that post. Definitely shouldn't have been made publicly.

Just wanted to mention that my DH was told by a very respected and knowledgeable rav that he was allowed to have jobs paid directly to school tuition( not part of official income) because for us frum Jews school tuition is not optional and a luxury but part of basic necessities.
(Obviously you can't do that if you get a paycheck every month)

Talking about a low income family eligible for government programs.
I'm not comfortable posting name of rav but consult your own if you think it might apply to your situation.