What's the halachah? Can an 11 year participate in a mixed..

amother ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 12:11 pm

Besides asking my LOR, what do you know?

Can an 11 year old participate in a mixed class? I'd like my DD to participate in a language program two nights a week after school. It's mixed, is this permissible? Must I ask a shilah?

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 12:22 pm

Well, it's not ideal that's for sure. But, I want/need her Hebrew language skills to improve by this summer. We don't have the money necessary for a private tutor.

ss321 ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 1:53 pm

Its not a halachic issue its a comfort issue. Do YOU think its appropriate. Do you feel comfortable with your teenage daughter sitting in a classroom with boys. A dance class? thats assur. But language? its not a question of halacha its more I guess a question of hashkafah. if you and your husband cant decide 4 yourselves then I guess speak to your rov?

micki ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 4:28 pm

does it help that my daughter sits in class EVERY day with boys while in school? till 7th grade they will.
I personally had english with the boys till 8th grade- I survived the torment...

cassandra ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 4:35 pm

IMO, if you're already asking if it's an issue you should be speaking to an LOR. I can tell you that I'd have no problem with it, but how would that help you exactly?

Apple pie

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 4:40 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

For those who are insisting, why isn't this a halachic issue? Or at least a major chinuch question?

Chinuch, for sure. But Halacha? Is there ANY rabbinical authority that paskens that it is ASSUR for girls to learn in the same class with boys? I am not aware of it, but I don't know everything...

bandcm

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 5:54 pm

I don't think it's halachic at all. Which halacha states that a girl (or woman) may not participate in a mixed lesson? I teach classes to men and women, mixed together! Am I going against halacha?
And by the way, according to halacha, she can also go to a mixed dance class. She'll have to stop when she turns twelve, though.

Imaonwheels

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 9:35 pm

Many hold that under no circumstances may a class be mixed or boys have a female teacher after age 9. This is definitely a halachic issue. When we opened our cheder we had to prove that this was halachically necessary for the yishuv to allow. I was the one who did the research. It is even written not to sit a tinuk by a tinoket. I saw a letter from the Lubavitcher Rebbe about having mixed classes in Russia under communism and he answered that because of the special situation it could be done if they sit separately. However, he said, this could not be considered a heter to any other place.

This is based firmly on a halacha and a school with mixed classes over 9 is using some sort of heter to contradict direct psakim. Unfortunately I do not have the time to find them right now.

Chinuch if the child knows that classes should be separate, like if they are at school, you are sending a bad mixed message. As if the school is doing it stam, for no good reason.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 9:49 pm

Apple pie wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

For those who are insisting, why isn't this a halachic issue? Or at least a major chinuch question?

Chinuch, for sure. But Halacha? Is there ANY rabbinical authority that paskens that it is ASSUR for girls to learn in the same class with boys? I am not aware of it, but I don't know everything...

Of course there are. Rav Moshe Feinstein, for one.

catonmylap

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 10:28 pm

I think you can find an answer that says it is assur and one that says it is permissible.

One thing I would think about is how your daughter feels about it. What are the backgrounds of the other kids in the class? What kind of school is your daughter in?

I know my parents would have been 100% with such a class(maybe even thought it was positive that it was co-ed). But as girl who was attending a BY, I might have felt weird. I might have embarrassed to tell any of my friends that I went to a co-ed class, or felt uncomfortable or strange being the only girl in skirt...... Just something to think about.. In 5th grade I went to my one and only NCSY shabbaton, and I felt totally out of place and never went to one again...

↑ ss321

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 4:27 am

Crayon210 wrote:

Apple pie wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

For those who are insisting, why isn't this a halachic issue? Or at least a major chinuch question?

Chinuch, for sure. But Halacha? Is there ANY rabbinical authority that paskens that it is ASSUR for girls to learn in the same class with boys? I am not aware of it, but I don't know everything...

Of course there are. Rav Moshe Feinstein, for one.

True but that psak was for limudei kodesh. I dont think (correct me if I am wrong, I will ask DH to look it up if youd like) it applied to other things. Otherwise, where do we draw the line? Im not saying its NOT a chinuch question, but it is more of a hashkafic question than a halachic one. Its a comfort thing. I dont think (but I will ask DH to be sure, he can look up that psak), there is any psak that is is ASSUR for a 11 year old girl and boy to be in the same room. there are other issues like yichud, tzniyus, etc, but just the taking the class together issue - it doesnt seem to be a clear cut halachic question.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 5:12 am

Of course kodesh is separated! even in MO schools kodesh & gym is separated...

Quote:

Many hold that under no circumstances may a class be mixed or boys have a female teacher after age 9.

Many? well this goes against what I see in most charedi schools even.

Quote:

It is even written not to sit a tinuk by a tinoket.

lol
my G-d, even the charediest of the charediest of the charediest (think no tv, no comp, "heter for rabbanim videos and frum cartoons") are sinners

↑ micki ↓

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 5:43 am

so explain to me how our school ( I do not approve) but they have mixed classes.
till 4th grade they are together for everything and till 7th they have english together.
how is that allowed?

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 6:14 am

micki wrote:

so explain to me how our school ( I do not approve) but they have mixed classes.
till 4th grade they are together for everything and till 7th they have english together.
how is that allowed?

some rabbanim, I am sure, do not think that it is not allowed.

I will have tomatoes thrown at me, but I actually think that coed classes is a very good idea.