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-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
OP
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 Sat, Dec 21 2024, 11:25 pm
Have you watched it?
Again lots of questions and not good solution to the crisis!
As parents who do everything in order to pay tuition in a town where tuition is prohibitively high, I don’t see how this is going to get any better. Salaries aren’t getting higher and cost of living is insane!
I am sick and tired of hearing that schools have to charge so much in order to function
Just like parents who can’t afford the tuition have to open up their whole life to the board, so should schools open up their books to the parents to justify their spenditures.
Maybe a good accounting firm could shave off some of their spending instead of passing on the cost to the parents
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 11:50 am
Crazy.
Tuition stuff started around 37 min in.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 11:52 am
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Seminary stuff starts around 54 min in
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 1:02 pm
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I agree op! What are the schools doing to keep the costs down? Even with voucher programs, tuition rates are still going up!
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 1:21 pm
5 kids
Earning 250k gross
His numbers are off.
I don't spend 8k a month on my house
I don't spend 1k a week on food.
We can afford $3,500 a month on tuition.
It's tight but we can do it.
I understand that Monsey is way more expensive than out of town though.
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amother
Mocha
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 1:25 pm
| amother Apple wrote: | 5 kids
Earning 250k gross
His numbers are off.
I don't spend 8k a month on my house
I don't spend 1k a week on food.
We can afford $3,500 a month on tuition.
It's tight but we can do it.
I understand that Monsey is way more expensive than out of town though. |
A starter house in Monsey can be 6500 in past 2-3 years
Tuitions are 1000 a month per child and playgroups are close to that (over 850)
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 1:44 pm
| amother RosePink wrote: | | I agree op! What are the schools doing to keep the costs down? Even with voucher programs, tuition rates are still going up! |
They're doing everything they can without compromising education. But there's a limit.
Electric bills are going to be high even with lights shut off automatically at night.
Health insurance plans these days are exorbitant and it's the minimalist of benefits to offer to attract staffing.
Repairs are significantly higher priced than they were 4 years ago.
My school's books are audited by an independent accounting firm, are kept by an outside financial service, are reviewed monthly by an objective finance committee, are posted annually in the form of a 990. There's no funny business. There's financial conscientiousness and responsibility. But the cost of education is just way higher than it used to be because that's the reality of the finances in today's world.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 2:37 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | They're doing everything they can without compromising education. But there's a limit.
Electric bills are going to be high even with lights shut off automatically at night.
Health insurance plans these days are exorbitant and it's the minimalist of benefits to offer to attract staffing.
Repairs are significantly higher priced than they were 4 years ago.
My school's books are audited by an independent accounting firm, are kept by an outside financial service, are reviewed monthly by an objective finance committee, are posted annually in the form of a 990. There's no funny business. There's financial conscientiousness and responsibility. But the cost of education is just way higher than it used to be because that's the reality of the finances in today's world. |
the way he was describing his school it seemed like they "spend", have no idea if the education is actually good or not but it seemed his school is big in incentive prizes... without there being funny business I wouldn't be interested in a school buying pizza and donuts... for my kids all the time...
I think there's a range when it comes to schools
I found it also interesting that he seemed to insinuate that the boys school is more costly then the girls to run. is there a girls division to his school? is that common for the boys to be more expensive? it wasn't clear if they charge more for the boys though. when schools that have both say it costs x per child do they lump boys and girls together even if they cost differently?
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amother
Dill
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 5:15 pm
| amother Floralwhite wrote: | the way he was describing his school it seemed like they "spend", have no idea if the education is actually good or not but it seemed his school is big in incentive prizes... without there being funny business I wouldn't be interested in a school buying pizza and donuts... for my kids all the time...
I think there's a range when it comes to schools
I found it also interesting that he seemed to insinuate that the boys school is more costly then the girls to run. is there a girls division to his school? is that common for the boys to be more expensive? it wasn't clear if they charge more for the boys though. when schools that have both say it costs x per child do they lump boys and girls together even if they cost differently? | I don't know about Monsey specifically, but in most communities boys have school for more hours a week than girls do. So it makes sense boys would cost more. That's why I never understood when people told me boys are cheaper than girls... definitely not when it comes to tuition.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 7:52 pm
Honestly, he probably doesn't really know the finances of the school in depth because he's a lay leader, unpaid volunteer who is working more on the end of working with the parents and trying to maintain a solid program through initiatives he fundraises independently for.
He's not in the business office or education office to really speak to some of the questions you have.
Not only boys and girls may be different, but also different ages. Preschool isn't the same as elementary which isn't the same as high school. Some schools go into the nitty gritty per division; others average it out school wide. At a certain point, while the data is useful, it's a drop in the bucket regarding overhead expenses. Maybe the programming is different boys vs girls (boys might get food related rewards like siyumim more often while girls will do more projects, for example) and staffing expenses will differ per division (ratios in younger ages are smaller, and on the other end departmentalized learning for middle and high school leads to more staff needed as well)... So it kind of evens out.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 9:45 pm
Monsey amother's - Were his numbers correct? I was pretty sure he threw out a number for a certain school's tuition and according to that schools website it was wrong but maybe I heard the wrong name of the school...
Is sem so expensive?
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 9:47 pm
| amother Floralwhite wrote: | Monsey amother's - Were his numbers correct? I was pretty sure he threw out a number for a certain school's tuition and according to that schools website it was wrong but maybe I heard the wrong name of the school...
Is sem so expensive? |
seminary is very expensive. probably costs 40-50k all in for tuition, flights, clothing, food, spending money, transportation, etc.
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amother
Seashell
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 9:52 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | | But the cost of education is just way higher than it used to be because that's the reality of the finances in today's world. |
But the reality of parents financial situation is not either what it used to be. The average parent is barely making ends meet as it is.
The solution to the education crisis isn't raising costs, unless they want to bankrupt most of their parents body.
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amother
Marigold
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 10:01 pm
| amother Floralwhite wrote: | Monsey amother's - Were his numbers correct? I was pretty sure he threw out a number for a certain school's tuition and according to that schools website it was wrong but maybe I heard the wrong name of the school...
Is sem so expensive? |
Depends on the sem and what you include with it. The sems I'm looking into are around $20K, but you can get some $7K in FAFSA (after paying $2K to a US sem to register them as an exchange student). The flight is $1-$2K, and maybe a second flight if you bring her home for Pesach. That's $17K (DD's high school is $16K).
Spending money can be next to nothing or a boatload. Some girls think they need a whole wardrobe for sem also. Some parents think they need to fly to visit DD in sem, not sure where this minhag fell from. DD will be using mostly her own money for spending, and I am not planning on visiting her.
So for me it's not likely to cost so much more than high school.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 22 2024, 11:32 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | They're doing everything they can without compromising education. But there's a limit.
Electric bills are going to be high even with lights shut off automatically at night.
Health insurance plans these days are exorbitant and it's the minimalist of benefits to offer to attract staffing.
Repairs are significantly higher priced than they were 4 years ago.
My school's books are audited by an independent accounting firm, are kept by an outside financial service, are reviewed monthly by an objective finance committee, are posted annually in the form of a 990. There's no funny business. There's financial conscientiousness and responsibility. But the cost of education is just way higher than it used to be because that's the reality of the finances in today's world. |
If my children’s schools operated this way then I wouldn’t have have these complaints!
Unfortunately they do not. The full tuition amount is way above the rates mentioned on This site. It’s so hard to imagine that the schools consider it affordable! I assume most people have no choice but to apply for a break. And we find the whole process humiliating and degrading.
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HonesttoGod
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Mon, Dec 23 2024, 12:16 am
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | Honestly, he probably doesn't really know the finances of the school in depth because he's a lay leader, unpaid volunteer who is working more on the end of working with the parents and trying to maintain a solid program through initiatives he fundraises independently for.
He's not in the business office or education office to really speak to some of the questions you have.
Not only boys and girls may be different, but also different ages. Preschool isn't the same as elementary which isn't the same as high school. Some schools go into the nitty gritty per division; others average it out school wide. At a certain point, while the data is useful, it's a drop in the bucket regarding overhead expenses. Maybe the programming is different boys vs girls (boys might get food related rewards like siyumim more often while girls will do more projects, for example) and staffing expenses will differ per division (ratios in younger ages are smaller, and on the other end departmentalized learning for middle and high school leads to more staff needed as well)... So it kind of evens out. |
He’s actually the president of this particular school for over 20 years and is on the board of several other schools. Additionally he said he signs all the checks (over 500 a month!). So I think he knows roughly what’s going on.
His numbers were quite high at the same time the crowd that lives in monsey and sends there, many (not most or all but many) live a “wealthier” lifestyle of spending $1000 on groceries a week. But yes that is high.
Even so, the situation is getting out of hand and there isn’t a real solution. I actually found the podcast super interesting from beginning to end. He sounds like an incredible guy.
In regards to boys school vs girls, yes boys are more expensive - #1 the rebbes are paid more, #2 the hours are longer #3 there are a lot more incentivized programs because they want to encourage the boys to learn (because that’s the important thing at the end of the day, Torah).
I really liked what he said about “taxing” the community. I also liked what he said about rabbinim taking a stand against crazy ott weddings etc and actually not going to those weddings even if they do give money to the school because they have to maintain a standard. Many don’t like it but in reality when part of a community you hold an element of responsibility.
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HonesttoGod
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Mon, Dec 23 2024, 12:17 am
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Ps I also think we should all move to Cleveland because it sounds nice there 😂
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amother
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Mon, Dec 23 2024, 12:32 am
| HonesttoGod wrote: | | Ps I also think we should all move to Cleveland because it sounds nice there 😂 |
I researched it. Tuition might be cheaper but costs would even out for me. My salary would be lower and other costs would be higher.
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amother
Molasses
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Mon, Dec 23 2024, 11:28 am
I haven’t listened to the entire podcast yet but here are a few points discussed that bothered me.
1. Seminary. Everyone loves to rag on seminary costs and how it’s unnecessary and a luxury etc. This is the one last year of formal religious education that women in our community receive before they are thrown into schooling, marriage, working to support the learning spouses, and motherhood, all generally within a few years of high school graduation. But sure, let’s remove that year from consideration. Aside from the fact that seminary locally is not $10k either.
2. Rebbeim salaries and family size. I guess in Mr. Orzel’s world only people in Klei kodesh are entitled to have large families? To use family size as an explanation for why rebbeim need more pay or more funds for simchos rubbed me the wrong way.
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