Crazy solution to Tuition

amother

Gladiolus

Yesterday at 9:45 am

In Israel most classes from 1st to 8th grade have about 40 students with no assistant. I don't think they are any worse of than the American with 25 in their classes. Chinuch, love, emotional health is from the home. School is just to provide an education.

amother

Orchid

Yesterday at 9:51 am

They actually tried this in NY. Decades ago- the catholic schools did it and got the yeshivas to join in.
that is how ANY funding started coming to day schools in NY. They get funding to take attendance, math books etc.
But it wouldn't work now because they don't have the same powerful church in NY and the public schools will be happy to take in healthy, well behaved, English speaking kids from stable two parent homes that prioritize education.

amother

Hawthorn

Yesterday at 9:55 am

I've got news for you. This idea is not new. I'm married almost 20 years and this was being discussed on frum blogosphere in the early 00s. There's a reason it hasn't been done. It won't work the way you think it will. They will not throw up their hands and send money to private schools. They will just find the extra money and take it for themselves. And they will be thrilled. More students gets more funding. Students from stable homes that value education? They'll love that! Students who are new to all the woke stuff? New minds to convert! So nope, not gonna work.

shabbatiscoming

Yesterday at 9:56 am

amother OP wrote:

Did you know that tuition is free in the public schools? The government pays it all.

What would happen if one year in September all Jewish and religious kids request to attend public school? This would have to be done in an organized way with the Rabbonim and Shomrim etc.

Don't you think the government would decide to rather help out the schools and yeshivas a lot more financially, than have additional thousands of kids added to each public school? They would need to pay for more teachers, more buildings, etc. AND have another thousands of kids on their head...

It would definitely be more worthwhile for the government to help out our educations a lot more financially.

I think you are living in a dream world or a non reality.
The public school system is just that, for anyone who wants to go. They will not help out the PRIVATE schooling more just so that they wont have to add thousands of new kids. You are dreaming. This would never in a million year happen.

momy1

Yesterday at 11:08 am

amother Ginger wrote:

The idea of vouchers as a credit actually makes sense - the property taxes are going for education, and they would give it back in form of vouchers to fund private schools.

What is this voucher program about?
Maybe we can give it over to the higher ups to work through it.

amother

Hyacinth ↓

Yesterday at 11:35 am

amother Ginger wrote:

They would just mix them all together and give a s-x ed class and we would not send back

Honestly, the government being involved in funding schools means they are invited to have a say in what we teach, which can only backfire in the liberal environment we live in ( look what happened in England, where the government funding was pulled away from the schools if they didn't teach the LGBTQIA+++ agenda)

The idea of vouchers as a credit actually makes sense - the property taxes are going for education, and they would give it back in form of vouchers to fund private schools.

Someone mentioned back in the day people went to public schools, and the OTD and Intermarriage rate was very very high. My grandfather says that out of his 90% jewish public school in brooklyn, 50% where shomer shabbos family's, and he is the only one frum today. I don't think we want to back to that....

I don't think the bolded is true. Yes there is a massive push to teach these things but not tied to funding. It's a whole different problem of ratings and potentially being shut down.

There is a new problem of funding here with the new government that they no longer want to let private schools not pay VAT.

amother

Gardenia

Yesterday at 5:50 pm

amother White wrote:

Pretty sure they did this I'm kj. It worked

I'm fairly positive that kj tried, but there were lawsuits about church and state and now the special ed programs are public school but the regular Ed is not.

I remember learning about it in an educational law class 20 years ago

nylon

Yesterday at 5:52 pm

And KJ went to the Supreme Court -- and that was only special education, too.

Vouchers will never happen in NY or NJ and they aren't a panacea. Voucher values are significantly lower than tuition. There's also the possibility that there are demands made in return for the money, curriculum wise. Elementary schools are an easier sell, but there are mesivtas with minimal or no English -- those aren't going to get funded so easily.

The public system would shrug, for the most part. It would only be a burden in a few districts. And no one really intends to do this, so it's an empty threat.

amother

Phlox

Yesterday at 5:54 pm

amother Gray wrote:

I think every luxury store (restaurants, high end home goods, etc) should add an extra 1% tax to make a community tuition fund that's dispersed to each school by enrollment to lower prices across the board, not application based

This is very interesting.

amother

↑ Aster

Yesterday at 5:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

If everyone would do this, (and lose out on all the other benefits of a Jewish school), also think about how many Jewish teachers & Rebbeim would lose their jobs. Public school may hire more math & english teachers, but even then, those jobs dont get off for yomim tovim etc.

amother

↑ Ginger ↓

Today at 2:21 am

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong - I thought that in england some schools get funding and some are 100% private, and the ones who got funding had problems with the new regulations threatening the ratings, and the ones who where 100% private have the VAT issue

My point is - the more you take the more power you give the giver, and in 2024, as opposed to 1924, there is such a misalignment between frum hashkafa and the states when it comes to s-x, gender, and s-xuality, that we can't really risk it

DrMom

Today at 2:29 am

amother OP wrote:

I think your suggestion would pressure the Jewish schools to lower tuition more than it would pressure the government to fund Jewish schools.

After all, the Jewish schools would have to close if nobody was paying to go there for a whole year, whereas public schools would get more $ (they receive funds per pupil) and would set up trailers and hire more teachers (they could hire the ones who would be fired from all the closed Jewish schools, if they are qualified).

amother

↑ Hyacinth

Today at 5:37 am

amother Ginger wrote:

You are correct but the ones which are 100% private also have issues with the ratings and things which they need to teach.

Your point is very valid.

amother

↑ Ginger

Today at 6:30 am

Want to add - it would probably make property taxes jump

The government funds PS using property tax. Jump the numbers = jump the tax.

So lets take Lakewood as an example: say the numbers double ( very reasonable, considering that you are flooding the system with a lot more then double the students) from the current rate of 1.873% to 3.746% - that means around 35k year for the average Lakewood house assessed at 1 million.

Sure it won't be AS much as tuition, but that would be similar to about 5k year per child in a family of 7 kids.

Then, even in the theoretical situation where you get them to agree to separate genders and only focus on actual education and avoid s-x ed or social issues, you presumably would be paying for some kind of after school limudei kodesh program, that would have a cost of at least 2k a month

You wouldn't be saving that much money.