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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
amother
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 Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:32 pm
I'm reading through the other thread and shaking my head at the vast amount of assumptions and misinformation on the other side. So, I'll bite.
I don't pay tuition to one of my four schools. At all. Of course, I want to and plan to but we haven't been able to since sometime last year.
I have three other schools to pay each month. We're fully up to date on one of them and very behind in the other two. The reason we don't pay this one school is because it's the biggest bill each month and we can't possibly pay it. Again, CAN'T not WON'T. BH the school has been extremely understanding and I don't know what I'd do if I got a letter like the one posted on the other thread.
Why are we struggling so badly?
Well, DH's work has been suffering badly since post-covid times. His salary varies but lately it's been lower than usual and it's been hard. Yes, I also work, yes, full time. No, I'm not out of the house 8 hours a day because that would cost me in childcare, but I put in a full morning's work and then when the little ones are in bed I sit down to another few hour's work. I work weekends, too.
On average, we bring home $9,200 a month net.
These are our monthly expenses:
Mortgage: 3500
Utilities: 1k
Cars: 900 (insurance plus payments on one car, the other is owned, no leases)
CC debt: 600
Transportation for kids: 600 (no bussing, need this or could not get to work on time. We do get some of this back in aid in lieu, but not close to what we pay)
Playgroups: 1k
Tuition 1 elementary: 700
Tuition 3 elementary: 1600
Tuition 1 girl hs: 600
Tuition 1 mesivta: 800
Total: 11,900
This is before we spent a penny on food or gas and we're already 2,700 under. Do you still fault me for not paying that tuition?
And before you jump on me, no, we don't have a bit of cleaning help, no, we haven't been on an overnight vacation in years, no, we don't buy takeout or even pizza (not fresh or frozen), yes, we shop the sales and clothing is hand me downs from cousins or from Serendipity. And yes, we are both working at our max right now and still looking for ways to grow our careers and bring in more money each month. Hopefully things will change soon with Hashem's help.
We don't qualify for foodstamps, but yes, we are on Tomchei Shabbos and I can't describe how low that makes me feel, even now just writing it out. You may also notice that there's no health insurance here. My kids BH are on UHC, but my husband and I don't have insurance at the moment. Neither of us gets it from our jobs and we dropped it when we couldn't afford the premiums. It was literally that or have our electricity be shut off.
So, tell me, all of you on the other thread who were convinced there's a spending problem behind the tuition issue, or that parents are prioritizing other expenses. What should I cut out here?
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:35 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I'm reading through the other thread and shaking my head at the vast amount of assumptions and misinformation on the other side. So, I'll bite.
I don't pay tuition to one of my four schools. At all. Of course, I want to and plan to but we haven't been able to since sometime last year.
I have three other schools to pay each month. We're fully up to date on one of them and very behind in the other two. The reason we don't pay this one school is because it's the biggest bill each month and we can't possibly pay it. Again, CAN'T not WON'T. BH the school has been extremely understanding and I don't know what I'd do if I got a letter like the one posted on the other thread.
Why are we struggling so badly?
Well, DH's work has been suffering badly since post-covid times. His salary varies but lately it's been lower than usual and it's been hard. Yes, I also work, yes, full time. No, I'm not out of the house 8 hours a day because that would cost me in childcare, but I put in a full morning's work and then when the little ones are in bed I sit down to another few hour's work. I work weekends, too.
On average, we bring home $9,200 a month net.
These are our monthly expenses:
Mortgage: 3500
Utilities: 1k
Cars: 900 (insurance plus payments on one car, the other is owned, no leases)
CC debt: 600
Transportation for kids: 600 (no bussing, need this or could not get to work on time. We do get some of this back in aid in lieu, but not close to what we pay)
Playgroups: 1k
Tuition 1 elementary: 700
Tuition 3 elementary: 1600
Tuition 1 girl hs: 600
Tuition 1 mesivta: 800
Total: 11,900
This is before we spent a penny on food or gas and we're already 2,700 under. Do you still fault me for not paying that tuition?
And before you jump on me, no, we don't have a bit of cleaning help, no, we haven't been on an overnight vacation in years, no, we don't buy takeout or even pizza (not fresh or frozen), yes, we shop the sales and clothing is hand me downs from cousins or from Serendipity. And yes, we are both working at our max right now and still looking for ways to grow our careers and bring in more money each month. Hopefully things will change soon with Hashem's help.
We don't qualify for foodstamps, but yes, we are on Tomchei Shabbos and I can't describe how low that makes me feel, even now just writing it out. You may also notice that there's no health insurance here. My kids BH are on UHC, but my husband and I don't have insurance at the moment. Neither of us gets it from our jobs and we dropped it when we couldn't afford the premiums. It was literally that or have our electricity be shut off.
So, tell me, all of you on the other thread who were convinced there's a spending problem behind the tuition issue, or that parents are prioritizing other expenses. What should I cut out here? |
I did not comment on the other thread because I don't think that a spending problem is behind the tuition crisis. I also don't think schools should send home children who don't pay tuition. I think that schools needs to fundraise more because tuition alone does not cover the costs in running a school. I think blaming everything on tuition is lazy.
Sorry for what you're going through.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:35 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I'm reading through the other thread and shaking my head at the vast amount of assumptions and misinformation on the other side. So, I'll bite.
I don't pay tuition to one of my four schools. At all. Of course, I want to and plan to but we haven't been able to since sometime last year.
I have three other schools to pay each month. We're fully up to date on one of them and very behind in the other two. The reason we don't pay this one school is because it's the biggest bill each month and we can't possibly pay it. Again, CAN'T not WON'T. BH the school has been extremely understanding and I don't know what I'd do if I got a letter like the one posted on the other thread.
Why are we struggling so badly?
Well, DH's work has been suffering badly since post-covid times. His salary varies but lately it's been lower than usual and it's been hard. Yes, I also work, yes, full time. No, I'm not out of the house 8 hours a day because that would cost me in childcare, but I put in a full morning's work and then when the little ones are in bed I sit down to another few hour's work. I work weekends, too.
On average, we bring home $9,200 a month net.
These are our monthly expenses:
Mortgage: 3500
Utilities: 1k
Cars: 900 (insurance plus payments on one car, the other is owned, no leases)
CC debt: 600
Transportation for kids: 600 (no bussing, need this or could not get to work on time. We do get some of this back in aid in lieu, but not close to what we pay)
Playgroups: 1k
Tuition 1 elementary: 700
Tuition 3 elementary: 1600
Tuition 1 girl hs: 600
Tuition 1 mesivta: 800
Total: 11,900
This is before we spent a penny on food or gas and we're already 2,700 under. Do you still fault me for not paying that tuition?
And before you jump on me, no, we don't have a bit of cleaning help, no, we haven't been on an overnight vacation in years, no, we don't buy takeout or even pizza (not fresh or frozen), yes, we shop the sales and clothing is hand me downs from cousins or from Serendipity. And yes, we are both working at our max right now and still looking for ways to grow our careers and bring in more money each month. Hopefully things will change soon with Hashem's help.
We don't qualify for foodstamps, but yes, we are on Tomchei Shabbos and I can't describe how low that makes me feel, even now just writing it out. You may also notice that there's no health insurance here. My kids BH are on UHC, but my husband and I don't have insurance at the moment. Neither of us gets it from our jobs and we dropped it when we couldn't afford the premiums. It was literally that or have our electricity be shut off.
So, tell me, all of you on the other thread who were convinced there's a spending problem behind the tuition issue, or that parents are prioritizing other expenses. What should I cut out here? |
You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 8 children, with the 2 youngest still playgroup age?
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:39 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 7 (or more) children. |
This shouldn't be allowed. That's one of the meanest things I've ever heard. And it's not even allowed halachically let alone the fact that it is onas devarim. Shameful.
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Seashell
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:39 pm
I think it's amazing that you are paying any tuition at all in your situation!!
Only thing I'd do diff is split the tuition more evenly. Instead of paying one school in full, split it with the one you are paying nothing. Or pay the same amount for each kid regardless of the official amount.
I do think health insurance comes before tuition. What if ch"v something serious happens? And food def comes first!
I think you need to give less to ALL the schools. But give something to all. One shouldn't get nothing.
Last edited by Seashell on Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:40 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 6 children. |
I actually have more children than that. Wow, I was expecting this kind of comment just didn't think it would happen so quickly.
My youngest is not a baby. Yes, I'm on BC now. No, my finances weren't anything like this when I had my last child. Did you miss the part where I said I stopped paying one school's tuition last year? That means I was fine until then.
Open your eyes. The economy is awful now and expenses have skyrocketed while salaries lag. So yes, many of us have more children than we can now afford but that doesn't mean we brought them into the world when we were unable to put food on the table.
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amother
Thistle
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:40 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 7 (or more) children. |
Aren't u brilliant for thinking of this. Mamish a chochom. Let's brainstorm on how we can help OP to farm some out. Who should she rent out? Put up for adoption? Probably the teens. They are the most expensive.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:41 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 8 children, with the 2 youngest still playgroup age? |
This is such a disgusting anti Torah sentiment and reflects on the real issue of our society today. Yeshiva tuition is not more important than birthing another Jewish neshama. Our priorities are totally skewed.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:42 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I actually have more children than that. Wow, I was expecting this kind of comment just didn't think it would happen so quickly.
My youngest is not a baby. Yes, I'm on BC now. No, my finances weren't anything like this when I had my last child. Did you miss the part where I said I stopped paying one school's tuition last year? That means I was fine until then.
Open your eyes. The economy is awful now and expenses have skyrocketed while salaries lag. So yes, many of us have more children than we can now afford but that doesn't mean we brought them into the world when we were unable to put food on the table. |
You don't need to justify or share any of this and you don't need to take birth control for financial reasons. That poster's behavior is nasty and it is not even torahdig.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:42 pm
| amother Mayflower wrote: | | This shouldn't be allowed. That's one of the meanest things I've ever heard. And it's not even allowed halachically let alone the fact that it is onas devarim. Shameful. |
You can call me mean all you want but anyone with a rational brain can see that the tuition problem is mainly from families earning too little for the family size they have. The way the Lakewood community is set up is unsustainable. Families with 8+ children simply can’t afford tuition and of course it’s not their fault, we can’t expect everyone to be millionaires.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:42 pm
| Seashell wrote: | I think it's amazing that you are paying any tuition at all in your situation!!
Only thing I'd do diff is split the tuition more evenly. Instead of paying one school in full, split it with the one you are paying nothing. Or pay the same amount for each kid regardless of the official amount.
I do think health insurance comes before tuition. What if ch"v something serious happens? And food def comes first!
I think you need to give less to ALL the schools. But give something to all. One shouldn't get nothing. |
I'd love to, but the other schools are down are back whenever we're late. This school knows our situation and really works with us. I feel awful not to pay them at all and really hope we'll be able to start giving them something soon.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:42 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 8 children, with the 2 youngest still playgroup age? |
So if someone is a millionaire and loses their fortune they should also lose their kids???? Or should they give them up for adoption or???
Seriously, money comes money goes…
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:43 pm
| amother Oxfordblue wrote: | | This is such a disgusting anti Torah sentiment and reflects on the real issue of our society today. Yeshiva tuition is not more important than birthing another Jewish neshama. Our priorities are totally skewed. |
Until all the schools close because no one can afford to pay. Then what?
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chestnut
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:43 pm
As I was saying in that thread, there are many families who can't pay tuition, not that they choose not to pay.
May I ask why you don't pay at least something monthly to this one school and less to others (the one with the full payment, let's say)?
Not sure if you're looking for ideas, but is it possible to pay less for cc debts? I understand it'll take longer to pay off, but in this situation, that's what I'd do. Are you eligible for HEAP or discounts on your electric/gas bills?
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:43 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You can call me mean all you want but anyone with a rational brain can see that the tuition problem is mainly from families earning too little for the family size they have. The way the Lakewood community is set up is unsustainable. Families with 8+ children simply can’t afford tuition and of course it’s not their fault, we can’t expect everyone to be millionaires. |
Please read my post above. What part don't you understand? The economy took a nosedive in the last few years. I'm sure I'm not the only one in my situation. None of us planned for this. When I had my kids I could afford all their tuitions.
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:44 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You can call me mean all you want but anyone with a rational brain can see that the tuition problem is mainly from families earning too little for the family size they have. The way the Lakewood community is set up is unsustainable. Families with 8+ children simply can’t afford tuition and of course it’s not their fault, we can’t expect everyone to be millionaires. |
So your solution is to limit the amount of children?
How about more fundraising?
You realize what you're saying is not torahdig. Did you discuss that with daas torah?
Either way, your comment was hurtful to the OP.
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Tanya1234
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:44 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You literally cannot afford to buy food without going into debt yet you have 8 children, with the 2 youngest still playgroup age? |
I reread this reply 5 times to make sure I’m not misunderstanding your response to a woman that stripped every once of pride and “came clean” on all her expenses explaining why she cant cover her tuition. Not because she drives a Lamborghini.
SHAME ON YOU for this comment. You should be banned from imamother.
Last edited by Tanya1234 on Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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care4u
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:45 pm
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Hugs. Hashem should be bentsh you with Shefa Bracha & Parnassa
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:45 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I actually have more children than that. Wow, I was expecting this kind of comment just didn't think it would happen so quickly.
My youngest is not a baby. Yes, I'm on BC now. No, my finances weren't anything like this when I had my last child. Did you miss the part where I said I stopped paying one school's tuition last year? That means I was fine until then.
Open your eyes. The economy is awful now and expenses have skyrocketed while salaries lag. So yes, many of us have more children than we can now afford but that doesn't mean we brought them into the world when we were unable to put food on the table. |
I fixed my comment, I see now you have more than 6. I’m not trying to be mean I’m just being realistic. Only the highest of high earners can afford to pay tuition and all the other expenses of frum life for 8+ kids. I don’t think you’re wasting a single dollar, you simply don’t have enough.
So tell me, what’s the solution when everyone has 8 kids and can’t pay tuition? Because that’s where Lakewood is heading, if it isn’t there already
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amother
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Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:45 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | You can call me mean all you want but anyone with a rational brain can see that the tuition problem is mainly from families earning too little for the family size they have. The way the Lakewood community is set up is unsustainable. Families with 8+ children simply can’t afford tuition and of course it’s not their fault, we can’t expect everyone to be millionaires. |
It's been sustainable for 70+ years and suddenly in 2024 its not sustainable? Do you really believe that?
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