School taking drastic measures

amother

↑ Oleander ↓

Yesterday at 11:39 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

What would YOU advise. Would you advise kicking the tenant out on the street, or would you advise to reach out to the community (I.e. askonim, organizations) for assistance.

(This tenant doesn't have family who can assist.)

You can’t be serious.

A landlord who isn’t receiving rent would evict the tenant. How else is the landlord going to pay mortgage, heating, utilities, taxes and other expenses?

A store doesn’t give out free items just because people ask. An individual would contribute to organizations that assist but in general they need people to pay for items so that they can pay rent, their employees, purchase inventory

Schools are expensive to run unless people are willing to send their children to a school in which all ages are crammed into a basement learning by rote and recitations like the shtetl cheders. 🤷‍♀️

The sad reality is that the economic model of people having a large family and sending them to private school is not sustainable.

amother

↑ Oleander

Yesterday at 11:41 am

amother Yolk wrote:

. I haven’t had that experience. My husband and I make very good money together, but we have multiple special needs children and I feel like I’m dying financial and emotionally. I wish I had your experience.

I don’t understand how this is actually a belief since all anyone has to do is look around and view the dire financial situation of so many people.

Just on imamother there are multiple posts by people who literally lack enough money for what most people woiod consider to be basic necessities.

amother

↑ Green ↓

Yesterday at 11:41 am

amother Begonia wrote:

I'm not asking what the tenants should do. I'm asking what the landlord should do. Also if landlord does decide to evict, after month of non payment, would u call them evil, cruel and greedy? Or understand that its very complicated and there were no good answers?

It makes a difference if the landlord has been collecting tzedaka and then decided never mind.
A school is a nonprofit. They collect tzedaka. That automatically puts them in a different category.

amother

↑ Natural

Yesterday at 11:45 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Let's take this a step further: The rent for every property in the city is set to a similar rate, all completely beyond the ability of the average family to pay. While this landlord could have charged less, he decided to upgrade the apartment to marble tiles and gold-plated fixtures and now must charge the going rate. The landlord has his property set up as a nonprofit, and accepts donations for the property, but won't pass on any savings to his tenants. He loudly discusses how living in subpar housing will destroy your family and insists that the family only use high-quality cleaning solutions on his floors. He demands that they pay for professional cleaning of the counters, but complains that they use cleaning help for the toilets also. He begrudges the fact that his tenants eat chicken during the week instead of prioritizing rent, while he eats steak at a different restaurant every night.

Would you still be so sympathetic to the landlord?

amother

↑ Green

Yesterday at 11:51 am

amother Natural wrote:

Also the landlord insists on only buying the most expensive boilers and filters and lightbulbs and when the tenant suggests cheaper ones that don't compromise on quality, the landlord refuses.
Also the landlord has made it clear that he can prevent your kids from ever getting married if you dare say anything about him

amother

↑ Honeysuckle

Yesterday at 11:54 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Finally someone got to the crux of the issue. As a community we dont prioritize our tuition. We mock it, we kvetch about it, we ignore it and we avoid paying it. We find excuses why we dont need to pay it, we blame the school for overcharging, we blame society for increasing standards to an impossible to sustain level, we look for loopholes etc Even as we prioritize other unessentials (see above).
We cant complain about tuition if we are overspending on simchas, vacations, yuntif, clothing, fancy footwear, toys, snack bags, etc etc.
Even our teachers tell us we need to spend more on our kids, who keep upping the bar, their "needs" and keeping up with our neighbors standards.
We feel like fools when our neighbors get to relax being a SAHM and we have to work and do all the same home responsibilities as our SAHM neighbors who get discounts and tuition breaks.

I propose something else. To keep up with our tuition,we borrow from our parents and pay them back a few thou a year, as we can. if this was said already, I apologize, I read most not all of this thread. BTW, this is what we did.

Yes, we need to prioritize more but also the schools need to reduce costs, open their books, and do other things such as assigning salaries to non working parents when calculating discounts. SAHM gets a salary of 50k. Kollel Dad should get one of 60- 70k... then add that to working parents salary to get how "needy" they are. Also take into account government benefits into how much income they have. Food stamps are untaxed money that could be worth thousands a month. WIC is like 200 a month per kid. Medicaid- what would an average insurance plan cost? Plus deductibles and copays....

amother

↑ Begonia

Yesterday at 12:11 pm

amother Natural wrote:

These claims are so ridiculous. The fact that u can think that way about schools is so asinine I won't even dignify with response

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Yesterday at 12:26 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

These claims are so ridiculous. The fact that u can think that way about schools is so asinine I won't even dignify with response

Why? Are the schools not demanding hundreds of dollars for shabbaton, melava malkahs, plays, etc. Ate they not mandating parents to pay tips for multiple teachers multiple times a year, asking excessive arts and crafts fees, non stop building funds fees? Why are their uniforms costing $100+ set, when I can get similar for a 1/3rd of the price if not for the embroidered school logos? Etc

If they want parents to pay for something, put it up for a vote. Parents should have a say if they are being forced to pay for stuff outside of tuition. I can probably save close to $1k per child with all the additional expenses.

They function like dictatorship, and assign themselves non-profit designations while demanding business like treatments, then turn around and accuse the struggling parents of inappropriate behaviors. Maybe its time for a good long look in the mirror.

amother

↑ Maple ↓

Yesterday at 1:08 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

These claims are so ridiculous. The fact that u can think that way about schools is so asinine I won't even dignify with response

What's ridiculous is responding to something to say you won't dignify it with a response, and to think that using an ad hominem is really a substitute for having some kind of counterargument.

amother

↑ Maple

Yesterday at 1:12 pm

amother Oleander wrote:

You can’t be serious.

A landlord who isn’t receiving rent would evict the tenant. How else is the landlord going to pay mortgage, heating, utilities, taxes and other expenses?

There are plenty of landlords who would do a million other things before evicting the tenant, including using their connections to try to get them a job or helping fundraise on the tenant's behalf.

amother

Birch

Yesterday at 1:19 pm

In the previous generation they begged kids to join frum schools and even took kids for free. Now some nickel and dime you to your last penny and into poverty and they don’t do much fundraising. Many get some government funding, or private grants.

How do the admins have second homes, two cars, annual vacations; while their students families don’t have a car, are renting or have a mortgage on their home, no vacations…?
So you can live it up on another’s dime? Give the parents a break, pay your teachers decent and take a smaller salary for yourself.

amother

Bone

Yesterday at 1:36 pm

Do you think if people had to go to a "tomchei shabbos" equivalent for tuition there would be more full paying families? If chv someone can't afford groceries we have tomchei shabbos, no one wants to resort to that but if we need to we have it bh. If there was one central organization for funding for people that can't afford tuition would our numbers drop drastically?

amother

↑ Cognac

Yesterday at 1:39 pm

Drop, the plays, Shabbatons and yearbooks! Parents pay more than tuition!

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Yesterday at 1:40 pm

amother Bone wrote:

Im assuming the organizations would be out of funds in days. The tuition costs are out of reach for the average family, so you would likely have 2/3rds of their community clamoring for help.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz

Yesterday at 1:47 pm

amother Cognac wrote:

Drop, the plays, Shabbatons and yearbooks! Parents pay more than tuition!

Or at least take effort in reducing the costs. Must there be a shabbaton, play, melava malkah every year? Why not do one a year, within a 4 year rotation. This way the kids still get some extras, but within reason.

And yearbook? It's 2024. The kids can create online yearbooks at almost no cost. Why the need for the $200 printed ones that you rarely, if ever, look at again.

The schools refuse to make adjustments on their end, yet demand that parents bend over backwards for them. And we still tried, and tried again and again, but it's no longer doable. Not sure what more parents can do at this point.

amother

↑ Tulip

Yesterday at 2:33 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Let's say u read a new thread on here, landlord is asking what to do, their tenant has not paid rent in 4 months, causing her to be behind in the mortgage.
She feels bad to throw them out because it's jewish family but they haven't paid a cent and are not picking up call, replying to emails. They openly tell other ppl that they have intention of paying
The landlord is now at risk of losing the house.

What would u advise?

It's interesting, because I live in Lakewood, I know people in Flatbush, Boro Park, Williamsburg and Monroe, and I have yet to meet a frum family living in the streets. Have you ever wondered why?

Because when it comes to a frum family living on the streets, nobody says "well it's not my problem, there's no community nowadays ". By hook or by crook, if they don't have the money, the nonexistant "community" figures it out. Why should tuition be different?

Another point here is that there is government help available for those too poor to pay for rent. AFAIK there is no government help to sponsor tuition.

There are also other options for rent, you can move to a cheaper apartment, buy a cheaper house. But with tuition, you are grateful to get in where you can, and the school is literally holding you by the neck (it sounds better in yiddish), you gotta pay whatever they decide.

So many, many differences.

amother

Linen

Today at 9:59 am

Linsey wrote:

as someone who is currently very angry at the school they are working at for not paying them... I think this is AMAZING and every school should take these measures. I am NOT a volunteer and I deserve and NEED to have reliable pay. If parents can not pay than they need to find some way to get the money or take out another mortgage because this is ridiculous. we are not volunteers.

your anger is valid, it doesn't make sense to work for free, you need to get paid. If you don't get paid, why don't you quit? The school in the letter was planning to send those kids home (and from my understanding, to send the kids in front of their classmates,by putting staff at the door, and making them turn back those who dont have admission cards). You are probably feeling even more angrier, because you know you cannot do such a thing to a child, and cannot embarrass a child, and you (at least I would ) feel trapped, and when I feel trapped, I feel angry. What makes me really concerned, is that you are a teacher of JEWISH school, and you are happy about the possibility of a Jewish kid being embarrassed in public. I think at this point and in this mental state, it is not beneficial for anyone, not you or kids, to keep your employment. You should switch a place of work and profession, with all understanding to you, a teacher that is bitter and resentful ,loses her essence of being a mechanech. I happen to know babysitters who babysit 20!!! Kids themselves and secretly hate them, but do it for money. I would never want to send to such a place, and not to a teacher who can embarrass a child because the teacher is so angry. Please quit and find other jobs,so many offices hire.The system tells girls that being in chinuch is avodas hakodesh, and I fully understand your anger and resentment,but ask yourself if you honestly will be able to do what you signed for -be a teacher, and teach middos and halachos, if you are ready to possibly violate halacha. I think this school puts all their staff at super bad spot, with all your anger and desperation, I'm not sure even if parents are disfunctional and bad, you can embarrass a kid. Please ask shaila. Your employment is between you and your employer, your anger should be directed at your employer not being able to operate the business successfully, not at the kids. Again, I do understand you, and I would also be furious, you have to bring these concerns with the mosad. Like in Israel when teachers do shvita, aka they refuse to go back to work because their salaries are low.

I read a gemora today moed katan, that when people were mourning, rich were brought meals in baskets of gold and silver and poor were brought meals in baskets of peeled willow branches,and poor were embarrased that everyone saw they were poor. the sages paskened that everyone should bring the meal to mourners in baskets of willow branches in honor of the poor.

I think the main problem with this letter is that it's not efficient way to word it and do it. And if the school send a nice, heartwarming,but sad letter saying that they cannot keep operating because parents don't pay, maybe even include letters from teachers about how they feel, the anger, desperation etc. -its would be much nicer. It's like you would be able to express how you feel, but without kids being embarrassed. They aren't guilty parents are doing wrong stuff. It's totally not teacher's job to worry who paid school and who didn't. Your employment and contractual agreement is between you and school. Parents contractual agreement is also between them and school. What this school did is basically transferred all their relationship and responsibility onto parents and stepped away, now teachers are mad at parents and kids. So what is the role of hanchala? If they can't keep the mosad functioning, it's their responsibility to step away first. Hear my point? I worked in business that couldn't pay bills, the CEO fired coo and business got sold. If mosad is drowning, they are due for restructuring.

amother

Honey

Today at 11:13 am

so what happened today? did they really carry out their threat?