Who rides shotgun?

amother

↑ Firethorn ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 8:39 pm

amother Tanzanite wrote:

It's not so simple because it's not so black and white.
For example babysitting. It's a bit of a grey area (say between 11 and 13) exactly when and under which circumstances one feels comfortable leaving a child to watch some younger siblings.

Many people when they're oldest turns 11 start leaving that child alone with 1 or 2 siblings for 20 minutes while Mom runs to the grocery or to pick up carpool. Not an official babysitting commitment,more like Yossi, you're in charge of Esti and Leah I'm running to buy milk and bread. It could be they're not 100% comfortable but comfortable enough.

But when oldest is 13 and second is 11, Mom may decide that the oldest is 13, she doesn't have to push herself to feel comfortable with the 11 year old watching younger siblings because after all, 13 year old is there. And 11 really is young.

But 13 year old is annoyed. After all when he was 11, he babysat for 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there.

It's not a formal thing.
So should Mom force herself to feel comfortable with the younger one when she doesn't? So many of us will compensate with small things. Sitting in the front more frequently. For example.

This. Plus, your math is not adding up. The oldest will have to deal with more younger siblings to share privileges with her entire unmarried childhood, while the younger ones will have more space, more stuff, more treats and more privileges as the house empties out. When will the oldest have a chance at those things? That's why lots of us focus on giving the oldest at home their chance to shine before they're out of the house.
Additionally, it's a direct function of responsibility. The most responsible one gets more privileges. By default, except under rare circumstances, that's generally the oldest. And that's also a very healthy paradigm. Otherwise, if you're not training your oldest to take more responsibility the older they get, you will have a problem on your hands.

amother

↑ Mistyrose

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 8:42 pm

amother Firethorn wrote:

A, none of this takes into account the middles who have the worst of both (middle class syndrome all over again I suppose)
B, the entire last paragraph has been addressed multiple times already.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 9:26 pm

amother Mistyrose wrote:

I hear all that. I hear that life is not black and white. Just because my kids are still little doesn't mean gray areas don't already come up all the time. I guess my point is, I don't see why rewarding one child has to mean that it's a consistent thing reserved for them that no one else can have. They'll get extra rewards for their extra responsibilities, it just won't be that this reward is reserved for them and no one else can have it. Maybe this time it means they got an extra scoop of ice cream and next time it means they get the front seat and the time after that it means they get to stay up a bit later than bedtime, etc. Why should other kids be made to feel "shotgun is eldest's seat always" if it's something they really want, especially if let's say this eldest doesn't even really care about shotgun, and their younger two siblings really do. I don't see the value in such a system.

The point is there are plenty of responsibilities that fall on the oldest that are subtle and not rewarded. Think about right now. There are things your 5 year old can help with that the younger ones can't. Might be pouring a drink or getting something from a shelf a younger one can't reach or holding the baby for a minute so you can run to the bathroom. Whatever it may be, it's small, it's subtle and not something you're regularly rewarding. As they get older it becomes more but still just as subtle. And parents tend to rely on the oldest more than the younger ones. It's a fact.
So yes, small privileges like sitting in the front seat can be reserved for the oldest.
Making a lavish bar mitzvah for 1 kid and not another or sending 1 kid to camp and another not does not fit into a small privilege category that an oldest is entitled to.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 9:26 pm

To get back to op's actual question, are her 20+ children actually arguing over who gets the front seat? If so, I think it's past time for them to gain some independence. At that age, it's typical and healthy to have moved on from being driven around by mom, and to have a license at the very least, and a!so hopefully working towards getting their own car (however used and as cheap as possible it may be).

amother

↑ Quince

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 9:33 pm

amother Mistyrose wrote:

I feel like part of what I'm saying is either going right over people's heads or people are actively choosing to ignore it.

Yes. I understand life just runs differently for different people. Ie, a covid bar mitzvah vs a regular bar mitzvah, no one could have controlled for that.

I am talking about the things we CAN control, such as b'shittah making a huge bar mitzvah for the eldest cuz he's the eldest, but not making such an event for the next few boys because they're not the eldest. Or always giving the front seat to the oldest because they're the oldest- that's a choice the parent is making that they did not need to make. I don't intend to specifically make choices that reward one child over another based on nothing but family position, gender, etc. Same way I won't only give extra dessert every shabbos to the boys and not the girls, I wouldn't give extra dessert every Shabbos to the oldest simply cuz they're the oldest.

If my oldest had to babysit for me while I go to a simcha, I'd likely bring back some yummy treats from the simcha and the person who babysat will get first choice of those yummy treats or something. But if my eldest wasn't interested in babysitting and the next sibling who's 18 months younger was the one to babysit, then THEY'LL be the one to get the special treat. And if I had to hire a babysitter cuz both my oldest kids told me they had to study and aren't available to babysit, then maybe neither will get that special treat over the rest of their siblings. Seems pretty straightforward to me and not that hard to implement.

I'm not talking about covid situations or things like that etc. I'm talking about situations specifically relevant to the child's placement in the family.

And no one besides you is talking about things like making a huge bar mitzva for the oldest cuz he's the oldest.

We're talking about the reality that different places in the family result in. Often not in your control. Just by definition of being in that place in the family.

I get it, when my kids were little I probably also felt like I could control every aspect of their lives. But the reality of life is not like that.

You do your best, but their family placement will have some effect on them, even if you do everything right.