Daniel Penny: Subway Hero? Or Racist Murderer?

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 5:46 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Of course the case is about politics. Penny is being charged in NY because he's a white person and the dead person is black. Had this just been two blacks fighting it out, nobody would care.

I meant specifically on imamother. There is a way to have this discussion in a nuanced way that doesn’t devolve into “you’re left wing so you don’t understand anything.”
Even the title of this thread is an attempt to preclude a nuanced discussion and instead lean into extremes: he MUST be either a hero OR a murderer.99 percent of the time, life doesn’t work that way. Life isn’t like the movies. Humans aren’t all bad or all good and each person has a story and complex motives. I think this case deserves to be viewed in a nuanced way. When you view it as binary: good vs evil, black vs white, you fall straight into the hands of the media and activists on both sides that want to whip up public sentiment for cheap political points.
I wish we could try to avoid doing that on here. But it’s impossible if any time someone tries to give a nuanced take, they are told that they are leftist and how DARE they question the established narrative.
It’s just very dispiriting. I don’t know why I keep on expecting more

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 5:49 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I read a very long article about the life of Jordan Neely. His mother was brutally murdered when he was 12 years old. He was mentally ill and alone. He had a very sad and tragic life, a victim of a system that lets people like him slip through the cracks. That said, subway riders shouldn’t be subjected to someone like that. He should’ve been in some kind of rehabilitation or psychiatric care. It’s not Daniel Penny’s fault that this happened. It’s the fault of the system. Did he use excessive force? Maybe. But ultimately, as Adams said, he stepped in when the city couldn’t or wouldn’t. I don’t know if I would call him a hero. But he certainly isnt a villain. But neither is Neely. We can have sympathy for this sad figure without saying that he should be allowed to terrorize subway riders.

Really? Neely wasn’t a villain? I’d consider a rap sheet with 42 arrests pretty close,

But liberals find a way to sympathize with the criminal…

↑ naturelover

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 5:53 pm

fleetwood wrote:

In this fantasy scenario I wouldn't need to take his pulse..I don't want him dead just unconscious...

Do you think you would actually be a good Samaritan if a similar opportunity arose for you. It's so easy to judge what someone else did but do you really think you would do much better?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 5:55 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Do you actually know anything about this case?

This has nothing to do with left wing or right wing sources. It’s a dispute between the medical examiner and the defense. The medical examiner says that he died from the chokehold. The defense said Neely died of a combination of factors, including a sickling crisis linked to his sickle cell trait, a schizophrenic episode, the struggle and restraint by Penny and K2 intoxication.
So they definitely say the chokehold was a factor, but not the only one.

Not everything is about left or right wing sources. Why unnecessarily politicize things? It’s rude and annoying.

I’m sure it’s insulting and embarrassing when you’re on the side of the ones who are pathetically wrong on every issue, but the facts are the facts.

This case is the current baby of the leftist liberal vile DA, Bragg, and a leftist liberal judge, and no doubt at least some leftist liberal jurors who couldn’t recognize fairness and Justice if they fell over it.

If you actually believe leftist views and politics aren’t what’s driving the injustice that’s being played out in this case, I got a bridge to sell you.

This man should’ve never been arrested; he should’ve been given a hero’s parade.

Thankfully at least one political party can differentiate between criminal and victim, and bad and good.

https://www.foxnews.com/politi.....maker

Daniel Penny to be tapped for Congressional Gold Medal by House GOP lawmaker
'Mr. Penny bravely stood in the gap to defy this corrupt system and protect his fellow Americans, says Rep Eli Crane

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:02 pm

small bean wrote:

I agree. We need to vote better

Amen to that! Pretty funny when liberals bemoan the state of high crime that’s skyrocketed in our cities during the past 4 years, due in large part to liberal no-bail laws and others that benefit criminal over victim (not to mention their open border policies and aiding with lawbreakers including murderers over their victims. Hey they’re not “illegal,” they’re “UNDOCUMENTED!”)… talk about shutting one’s eyes to the facts.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:02 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Really? Neely wasn’t a villain? I’d consider a rap sheet with 42 arrests pretty close,

But liberals find a way to sympathize with the criminal…

No nuance. Everything is black and white. No ability to see anything beyond simplistic binaries.
Life is so much more complex. I feel sorry for people who are so easily duped by such reductive and ideologically driven narratives.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:03 pm

There was a case where a man shot and killed a deranged man on a subway who punched his girlfriend.

But that man who shot the attacker dead was not charged by Bragg because the shooter was black.

The Left only charges those who fit their false narrative of racist whites unjustly killing blacks.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:07 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Agreed. High crime is a huge problem and laws put forth by democrats are mostly to blame.
People like Neely must be dealt with in a way that doesn’t endanger regular people.
….and I still feel sympathy for him and others like him on a personal level.
It’s called nuance. It’s called being able to see two things at once. It’s part of being human. You don’t need to attack people for it.

Last edited by fmt4 on Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:08 pm

fmt4 wrote:

But he didn’t kill anyone.

No, he only had 42 criminal offenses for which he was arrested…
A tzaddik who should’ve been given the benefit of the doubt, after threatening to kill others, just so liberals wouldn’t be able to point the finger at the victims…

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:12 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Typical leftist wokeness.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:15 pm

fmt4 wrote:

….and I still feel sympathy for him and others like him on a personal level.
It’s called nuance. It’s called being able to see two things at once. .

It’s called liberal wokeness.

And remember what the Torah says; kind to the cruel will eventually be cruel to the kind.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:19 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Typical leftist wokeness.

Can you be a bit more specific? Which part is leftist wokeness? Nuance? Lack of black and white thinking? Attempting to have a deeper understanding of the case? Trying to avoid typical media and activist narratives from both sides? Trying to avoid reductive thinking? Specifically in this case - saying that penny did the right thing but wasn’t necessarily a hero, and Neely was dangerous but a victim of a bad system- leftist wokeness too?

Wow. I never identified as leftist or woke, but if those things are woke then sign me up!! 😄😄😄 I guess it’s just another name for being a thoughtful person! Who knew!!

↑ nightingale1

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:20 pm

fleetwood wrote:

In this fantasy scenario I wouldn't need to take his pulse..I don't want him dead just unconscious...

May you never be in that situation, but I don’t think it’s as simple as it sounds. Your adrenaline is pumping, you don’t want to get off the guy to check and give him a chance to hurt you…I’m not strong enough to put someone in a chokehold but I could imagine if someone was threatening me or my kid, being so terrified and focused on eliminating the danger, shooting multiple times or something like that

↑ fleetwood ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:20 pm

naturelover wrote:

Do you think you would actually be a good Samaritan if a similar opportunity arose for you. It's so easy to judge what someone else did but do you really think you would do much better?

Nope. I wouldn't have the guts to put someone in a chokehold.
I'm not judging Penney. I think he did the right thing by putting a stop to Neeley.

allthingsblue ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:23 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I also feel sympathy- but not at the expense of my own safety

People with mental illness who are a danger to others should not be allowed out in public where they may harm others. Nor should they be allowed access to guns btw.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 6:24 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

100 percent! Sympathy should spur us to support laws that deal with people like this - for everyone’s sake.