Daniel Penny: Subway Hero? Or Racist Murderer?

↑ ora_43 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:06 am

Reality wrote:

She's actually the prosecutor. What difference does it make who the prosecutor is? Do they get to choose or are they assigned their cases?

You're right, my bad.

It doesn't make a difference to the case. It's just not great that the case involves an older liberal Jew going after a young man who looks like the ideal Aryan. It's catnip for the antisemitic wing of the Woke Right.

imaofaprincess ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:07 am

eduardo wrote:

Source? AFAIK they did CPR and lifesaving measures for his very weak pulse, and he died shortly thereafter at the hospital. I mean, how is that not a result of the chokehold?

I do not think Penny should be going to prison, I do think it was a heroic effort but at the same time holding him past being subdued was excessive and unnecessary. Why did he need to continue the chokehold once he passed out? He was also coughing up blood, while onlookers warned he was going to die if it continued

Actually if you read the reports & the New York magazine article, that's not what happened. The onlookers were helping Penny because the victim had been threatening to k*ll people.

Facts matter.

↑ Reality

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:09 am

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not so sure that type realizes a woman named Dafna Yoran is Jewish. In their mind Jews have last names like Berger and Goldstein.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:11 am

Cheiny wrote:

Sounds like you got your info from a left wing source.

Do you actually know anything about this case?

This has nothing to do with left wing or right wing sources. It’s a dispute between the medical examiner and the defense. The medical examiner says that he died from the chokehold. The defense said Neely died of a combination of factors, including a sickling crisis linked to his sickle cell trait, a schizophrenic episode, the struggle and restraint by Penny and K2 intoxication.
So they definitely say the chokehold was a factor, but not the only one.

Not everything is about left or right wing sources. Why unnecessarily politicize things? It’s rude and annoying.

↑ small bean ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:14 am

It's very sad he had a tragic life and he didn't get the help when he needed it. Nothing justifies his drug use or any of the crimes he committed.

There was a story last week where a store manager was robbed, and as the robbers left the store, the manager took out his gun and shot at them, one died. Is he a murderer? I don't think so.

↑ small bean ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:15 am

fmt4 wrote:

But they both say he was not dead when help come and that mouth to mouth cpr was not done. So who said he would've died had proper care been administered?

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:20 am

small bean wrote:

No. But it’s a problem with the system when we need people to take the law in their own hands. It’s not the way that justice should work.

↑ small bean ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:21 am

fmt4 wrote:

No. But it’s a problem with the system when we need people to take the law in their own hands. It’s not the way that justice should work.

I agree. We need to vote better

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:23 am

ora_43 wrote:

There's always going to be a line between self-defense, and unjust killing.

There are people who've literally shot people dead just for taking a wrong turn and turning around in their driveway, and then claimed self-defense. Eventually, somewhere, there's going to have to be a point where someone says "but I felt threatened!" and a judge is going to tell them, "you felt threatened, but you weren't, so to jail with you." Otherwise murder becomes legal.

IMHO this is legitimately close to that line. The man who died wasn't physically attacking anyone at the time, and the man who subdued him kept him in a chokehold for dangerously long.

But it's not quite over the line.

Jordan Neely has a long history of violent attacks and threatened to kill, saying he didn't care if he went to jail for life.

How dare you second guess how long the chokehold was!

Do you know how many were killed in the subways by deranged people???

What if Neely was faking unconsciousness and as soon as released would murder Penny???

Shame!

Penny is a hero who should never have been charged.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:24 am

imaofaprincess wrote:

Actually if you read the reports & the New York magazine article, that's not what happened. The onlookers were helping Penny because the victim had been threatening to k*ll people.

Facts matter.

All facts matter.

Daniel Penny and other bystanders who pinned down Jordan Neely during their fatal encounter on Monday were warned by another person on the New York subway that they were "going to kill him," a video obtained by the Daily Mail shows. Penny did not heed the warnings.

While Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, put Neely in a chokehold in a New York subway car for several minutes as bystanders helped pin the man down until he went limp, the extended video shows a person emerge from the side of the scene, noting that Neely defecated and that those restraining him should be concerned about a "murder charge."

↑ flowerpower ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:26 am

fmt4 wrote:

No. But it’s a problem with the system when we need people to take the law in their own hands. It’s not the way that justice should work.

When you live in a blue city where the law is non existent what is the solution?

leah233

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:31 am

Normally liberals have more empathy for the perpetrators of violent crime than the victim. Here they make an exception because the one they believe to be a victim was usually a perpetrator.

↑ imaofaprincess ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:33 am

fmt4 wrote:

So as one of the few frum people who deign to ride the subway with the common people (the horror!), my DH was on the subway tracks to witness the end of the incident while Penny was still on the case, restraining the deranged schizophrenic threatening person who had four seconds earlier threatened to k*ll ppl.

Penny's a hero who perhaps saved lives that day.

End of.

fleetwood ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:47 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Penney didn't know Neeley background...

And the chokehold may have gone on too long..we have every right to question it..

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:49 am

leah233 wrote:

Normally liberals have more empathy for the perpetrators of violent crime than the victim. Here they make an exception because the one they believe to be a victim was usually a perpetrator.

Liberals

Black = victim
White = oppressor

Same with Palestinians. Since they are darker skinned than most Israelis, the Palestinians are the victims and Israel is the aggressor.

Liberals = Racists.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Dec 08 2024, 11:51 am

fleetwood wrote:

Penney didn't know Neeley background...

And the chokehold may have gone on too long..we have every right to question it..

When people are legitimately afraid for their lives we have no right to second guess them.

If it were YOU, you would done the same.