Double take-Helping hand

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Today at 8:44 am

camp123 wrote:

Why are people assuming that a seminary girl who is 19 and will be trying to get married in just one more year is unable to do real chesed. Real chesed is seeing someone's need and sometimes don't things that are hard to help fill that need. The seminary girl should have seen that her sister needed her help she she should have been the one to offer to come to her at least every other week. There is nothing wrong for seminary girls spending a few hours a week doing real chesed to benefit someone else at the expense of what they want to do. Seminary's should educate about this. Pushing yourself to do something you don't particular want to do should be a value that's encouraged.

Let's say it was reversed, and it was a brother in yeshiva spending the year in Israel. Also a sibling who will expect to be hosted, come for meals, do laundry, ask for help etc. Would there be anything near the same expectations or resentment if he doesn't "pull his weight" and help out? I think we know the answer to that.

Another question is, why are girls always the ones dumped on in frum fiction? If it's a preachy story abt spoiled American kids spending a year in Israel, always a girl. A harried mom with lazy teens--always daughters who don't step up. If it's a mean student/friend who ended up years later struggling in shidduchim --obviously pay back for her bad behavior years before-- it's always a girl. It's definitely a pattern in frum writing, but it's lazy clichéd writing, and it's not necessarily true to life.

One of the magazines had a collection if short stories a couple months ago abt regrets or something along that line--of course at least one of them featured a mean girl who ended up not being able to get married. It was so predictable that there'd be a story in there like that. It's so ingrained in the frum psyche, there's a double standard with the way we view/treat boys vs girls, even in the stories we choose to tell.

amother

↑ Seagreen

Today at 8:47 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Thank you. As a mother of mostly boys I was thinking the same. Nobody expects them to extend a helping hand to their married siblings but they are expected to help them and feed them... I don't really get it. And don't give me baloney that boys have to learn - very few are learning 24 hours a day and they likely have an hour available a week.

amother

Yellow

Today at 8:50 am

amother Seagreen wrote:

And a boy who goes to his married sister or brother's house to do laundry and eat normal food and while he's there, he holds the baby or plays with the kids so the mother can use the bathroom - wow what a tzaddik, he'll make an amazing husband soon.
A sister who does that - she's almost in shidduchim maybe she's not ready to be a mother and wife if she's so selfish.

amother

↑ Dustypink

Today at 8:51 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

I can't speak for anyone else but for me it wouldn't be about the help. I happily helped ALL of my siblings while they were here. BUT, if they are going to be helping someone while they are here, I would think it should be me. The resentment would be that they are going to help someone else without thinking of me at all.

I don't especially need the help so don't care if they don't help anyone (the boys have no chesed requirement so aren't helping anyone and no issues) but if you're helping someone...

amother

↑ Mayflower ↓

Today at 9:02 am

camp123 wrote:

I think you are over estimating a young woman's ability to sense a need. She may be the most mature, helpful and considerate girl but so often, unless it is spelled out people don't always recognise just how much someone may need their help. After all we have thread after thread here of women expressing a variety of challenges and needs and an extremely common piece of advice is to just reach out and ask for help. Of course, as I said up thread, it would be nice and indicative of good middos for a girl who is using a sibling's home as a home away from home to offer to help out because that is just the right thing to do. I still would not expect her to pick up on just how exhausted or overwhelmed her sil is because the sil probably doesn't show it or express it clearly. In fact, I like to think that I am a nice, considerate person who will go out of my way to give someone a hand. I'll be the first to admit though, that unless you tell me, I may not realise it.

Regarding the lack of expectation from male relatives, I completely agree.

amother

↑ Mayflower

Today at 9:21 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

I wonder if we would have fewer clueless husbands if the boys actually did have a chessed requirement. Not that they would necessarily be more reliable or any better at it than the girls, but it would raise some awareness.

amother

↑ Tangerine

Today at 9:41 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Ftr when I was married in Israel I had a brother in yeshiva and there were definitely expectations from him (not demands, but our relationship was a two way street). He went to set up our apt before we came, helped us deal with govt stuff. Came when we arrived and helped us shlepp suitcases, also when we had to move he helped find a place and pack. Came for dinner/ laundry all the time but also did my osher ad shopping with or without my husband when he came for shabbos etc.

I agree with you that the stories put down girls more but in my family the expectations are there for both, bh most of us are happy to step up and it made for very strong and happy sibling ( and siblings in law!! Cannot believe bloom consider that less than cousins!) bonds. My brother and my husband are very close bh from the year we overlapped in ey.

amother

↑ Tuberose ↓

Today at 10:00 am

amother Tangerine wrote:

I still don't think that compares to expectations placed on girls and resentment/anger felt towards them if they don't do what is fully expected. If your brother hadn't risen to the occasion and done all of that, I doubt you'd be complaining about his lack of help the way people do about girls. Not to mention, it's a lot less of a big deal to help with things every now and then than to be expected on a set schedule or regular basis the way girls are.

amother

↑ Mimosa

Today at 11:12 am

The difference is that the sem girls have chessed hours built into their mandatory schedule. So if your sister wants to come for YT/Shabbos/do laundry/bake for herself etc etc, she should also use her mandatory chessed hours to help her sister instead of a stranger or someone she isn't relying on for help.

My brothers absolutely helped. One brother used to pickup my ds from gan most fridays and take him to the park for a half hour because he wanted to bond with his nephew. (He offered, I did not ask.) Another brother played with my kids whenever he visited to both spend time with them and let me get stuff done in the next room. I did so much for them all the time, it was nice that they were able to give as well.

I think people out of Israel don't realize how much these teens rely on their married siblings when they come to Israel. Don't get me started about all the relatives and aquantances with whom we haven't spoken to in 15+ years, yet they all expect us to host their kids throughout the year. It is literally the definition of taking advantage. If parents would insist that the seminaries would have only 1 out shabbos a month instead of 3-4/month, it would be so much more manageable.

amother

↑ Tuberose

Today at 12:34 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

But if your brothers hadn't stepped up, would you have been stewing with anger and bitterness at him the way people put down sem sisters? And the things they did were very nice, of course, but not close to what would be expected of a girl.
BTW it's rare that people complain abt being asked to host yeshiva guys for shabbos or yt, but they certainly do for girls.